2 rescue dogs fearful of other dogs

Posted by cmtom89
Mar 17, 2010
My concern is similar to others posted, yet different in some ways and I am looking for suggestions. Apologies for the length of my post!!!
We adopted Cody and Gia about 6 weeks ago from the Humane Society where they had been rescued from a home where the owners had stopped feeding them. Both were extremely emaciated and too weak to even stand. After 2 months in a foster home(with 4 other dogs) they had regained weight and were healthy enough to be adopted. Both are very loving and affectionate and we decided to keep them together after all they had been through together.
Cody is a 3yo neutered male and appears to be a coonhound/greyhound mix based on looks and personality traits. Gia is a 1yo spayed female and appears to be a beagle/bassett mix.
We have lots of things to work on so I will probably be a frequent poster seeking lots of input!!

We immediately began to notice that they are fearful of other dogs. Barking, growling, lunging at other dogs at the vet's office, from the car, and on our walks in the neighborhood. I have started walking them separately and both do much better that way, but I want to be able to walk them together. I was hoping that with a month of separate walks and feeling successful, that they would remain calm when together. So far, no. Cody seems more fearful and gets very anxious. I think Gia senses his anxiety and begins to bark. Once she barks, Cody flips out with the very angry barking, hair on the back standing up (from nape to tail), lunging and even nipping at Gia. Gia then is very riled with the barking and hair standing on end, too.
I have them each on a gentle leader and can get them to sit and try to calm them down, but it is very difficult with both of them.
We are very selective about giving out treats as a reward because they tend to obsess (because of their history) and will even get angry with each other - which they don't seem to do at any other time.
I can't really see myself managing two upset dogs and treats at the same time anyway.
I cannot really replicate this behavior to deal with it individually because they have overcome much of their fear when separate on our walks. Any suggestions for helping them learn to overcome this fear when they are together?
For those of you who managed, thanks for sticking with me all the way to the end!!!!
Posted by kjd
Mar 17, 2010
cmtom89,

Thanks for taking in those two dogs. In today's economy, people seem to stop feeding their dogs before trying to rehome them. Sunna came from such a situation, though they did turn her in while she was just very thin.

It sounds as if you have come quite far in only 6 weeks. Don't be surprised if it takes longer to solve all their problems. I think patience is all you need with Gia and Cody. To have stayed in a home where they weren't being fed to the point of starvation, they must be extremely nice dogs. Right now, they are learning to trust you. There will be times the situation will be so stressful for them, they won't remember to trust you. Take your time. If you can (aren't short of time) walk the dogs separately, continue doing it. (More exercise for you!) Start out by taking very short walks with them together -- maybe just down the driveway and back. It would also help if someone else can walk one of the dogs. As you've noticed, it is far easier to control one upset dog than two.

I am really impressed with how much you have accomplished in such a short time. Keep up the good work. There is really no magic answer.

kjd
Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Mar 17, 2010
Hi cmtom89,

It was very nice of you to rescue Cody and Gia. I am glad that their health conditions have improved. Now you will need to work on their training to be confident family dogs. In fact, it will take much more time than their physical recovery.

As you have noticed when they are together they sense each other's nerveousness and their reactions to other dogs usually get much worse. If one of them was a confident mature dog, it would help the other one but it sounds like both dogs are fearful dogs. As kjd suggested, I would take them for walk separately. I understand it will be a lot of work for you but I would prefer to take two manageable walks than one chaotic and stressful walk myself. It will also create for each dog to be with you one on one. For the one left home, it will be a good opportunity for him/her to learn that you and the other dog will come home soon and it will be good lessons to avoid a separation anxiety problem.

You said that they had lived with 4 other dogs at the foster home. Is there any way to contact the foster family and ask how they did with those 4 other dogs? While it is a totally different thing to live with other dogs from meeting stranger dogs on their walk but the foster family should know their personalities and might be able to give you some suggestions. You can ask the foster family how they handled Cody and Gia on their walks too.

As for treats, make sure you only give them tiny pieces at a time. As long as they can smell the treat, it is big enough. My treats are size of my pinky finger nail or smaller. You can reduce their regular food and use the rest for treats too if you are worried about them becoming overweight. Use treats for any occassions they do good things, or to encourage them to make good things. For example, when you see another dog coming on your walk with Cody, have Cody sit at the side of the road and have him watch you (distract from the other dog). You can give a little treat when he watches you. Keep talking to him and if he can ignore the other dog passing you guys without lunging or barking, tell him "Good boy, Cody!" and give him a treat. It might take a while but I am sure you will be able to control one dog at a time.

Cody and Gia sound like they need a lot of socialization as well as building their own confidence so please keep on working on that. The worst thing is to keep them separate from any other dogs to avoid the hussles; it will be easier for the owner, but they will never learn that it is OK to be close to other dogs.

As for barking in the car, Holly, one of my rescued dogs, used to bark in the car whenever she saw people walking, riding on bikes, on skateboards, etc. but she stopped doing that sometime ago. I don't even remember working on the issue, except for telling her to "Leave it!". I think things will be better in a year or two. Sorry, I don't mean to discourage you but one year is nothing when you think about all the happy years to come with your doggies. Lets get it done
Posted by cmtom89
Mar 17, 2010
Thank you for the suggestions...I will certainly give any idea a try. Cody and Gia are such wonderful dogs and we want them to be happy and able to really enjoy going out and take part in fun things (walks, play dates, dog park, dog beach, yappy hour, etc).

I have had weekly communication with their foster mom. They really did not walk or do any training while with her family....her goal was simply to feed and love them. She said she didn't even try going for a walk because she didn't want them to expend the calories (they were each slightly less than half their normal weight!)

She says they got along well with her 4 dogs, but that Cody liked to be in charge and Gia would just go with the flow. Cody was her shadow and followed her everywhere, not letting her out of his sight and if she was sitting, he was on top of her...sometimes sprawled across her chest.
I wonder if Cody and Gia were both so weak and afraid (of life in general) that they didn't want to rock the boat - just accepted their new situation with the other dogs.

Cody is very sensitive and tries so very hard to do exactly what you want him to do. He is still our little shadow and will choose to be sitting in our lap rather than playing in the back yard with Gia. He also seems to be acting as the protector of Gia - looking out for his little sister.

We have made lots of progress with them and are very pleased with it. I am not discouraged at all. They are great dogs and have just missed some opportunities to learn and have been treated very badly in the past. The fact that they love and trust humans at all is a monumental accomplishment and speaks to what wonderful dogs they are. I just want them to reach their full potential and know it will take time.
Any and all suggestions are appreciated!!!!
Thank you!
Posted by kjd
Mar 17, 2010
You are doing very well with them. Since they are so tightly-woven, the individual walks are very good for them. It builds their confidence in being away from the other dog.
Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Mar 17, 2010
Hi cmtom89,

I foster dogs so I understand that the main goal of the foster mom was to bring their health back and to make them feel loved and at home. Making sure that once-abandoned dogs regain trust to us humans is very important.

I also understand that you, as the new owner of the dogs, want to have funs with Cody and Gia. It will take time for them to get used to new dogs and new people (which is more important) but you are on the right track.

In addition to a separate walk for them, would that be possible to take one dog at a time to some obedience classes? I wasn't a believer of those classes until 5 yrs ago when we adopted Holly. Holly had some issues from being a stray dog and have spent 2 mos at 2 different shelters. Until I met Holly I thought dogs can learn things they need as they live with us and my previous dogs actually did. The biggest benefit of those classes is a huge contributor for building bond between you and the dog. Just one hour a week but it is a very intimate time between the two of you and it gives an opportunity to be with the other dogs and their owners, in a very structured and controled environment. It will also help boost up your dogs' confidence level through accomplishments. Good luck
Posted by kjd
Mar 17, 2010
Let me give a resounding second to MaxHollyNoah's suggestion for obedience class. I have found that one of the quickest ways to forge a bond. The one time I had to re-home a dog, I encouraged the new owner to take a class. Didn't tell him the dog was already trained and he was so pleased when the instructors told him the dog was too good for him! Dogs usually love the classes because they get that one-on-one with you.

kjd
Posted by cmtom89
Mar 18, 2010
I will check into the obedience classes. It sounds like a good idea for all the reasons you've both mentioned.
Thanks for the suggestions.
We are planning to visit with the foster mom soon. She loves and misses them - you obviously know how quickly an attachment forms! I know they will all enjoy seeing each other.
Posted by crazycrayonmom
Mar 19, 2010
As usual I agree with KJD and MaxHollyNoah! Keep taking your pups out on separate walks. I'm willing to bet they are showing some signs of aggression towards other dogs while on single walks. If that's true then you're better off dealing with those problems one on one. As you've mentioned, when Cody gets upset then Gia feeds into it and it just escalates. (From what you've posted it sounds like Gia is the more balanced of the two. But since she'll take her cues from Cody, he's the one who leads between the two of them.) They also receive cues from you so remember to stay relaxed while you're holding the leash, they can feel your tension if you're nervous too.

I really, really like the suggestion of finding a trusted friend or family member to take one dog while you take the other and go on walks together but separate. If Cody starts getting nervous have the person walking Gia cross the street or hold back while you distract Cody with treats or attention. When the other dog is past then have them bring Gia back into the picture. You'll have to get your friend to do the same distraction technique with Gia in case she reacts to the dog as well. But if they are separated during the explosive phase they would be easier to handle.

I am also a very big supporter of obedience classes. I've found they make me more aware of my dogs' body language and abilities. And I love the one-on-one time with them as much as they do with me. I once had an instructor tell the class that "your dog is perfect, it's you who need the training." I thought it was funny until the instructor took me aside after our first intermediate class and told me I should repeat the class again. Boomer (my deaf border collie) passed the class but I had failed, . Boomer was doing everything right I was still hesitating at the wrong places and messing him up! She was right, we retook the class and I learned to relax and enjoy the process!

Let us know how things progress with Cody and Gia.