Kingdom of Pets

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 5, 2013

We have a G.S bitch 19 months old called Heidi.
She's a lovely dog most of the time but if Mum comes into the room carrying something she goes wild. She doesn't do it to my Dad or me but sometimes my brother. She watches and listens if Mums in the kitchen .....ready. We can't understand it because if Mums in the house on her own she's fine and if it's just Mum and Dad she's fine also. Dad always sits in a different chair to Mum so wondered if that was it as Me, Simon and Mum usually sit together.
We used to have her cage near the door so I've moved that but it's not made any difference.
I'm the one who's done most of the training with her, Dads idea of training was with a stick but of course that's just made things worse, Mum and Simon just carry out the 'sit' and 'no' basically. It got so bad we thought we were going to have to lose her. She's come from good stock but the breeders told us to put her in her cage and forget about her, so she realised she was at the bottom of the rankings. We've had 4 other G.S and never had this problem before. We've tried changing her food. She also runs off with tea towels and hides. I use positive reinforcement by giving her one of her toys in exchange which works well as she gets very aggressive if we just try to take it off her. We can take her own food and toys off her but if she's stolen it, it seems to be different. She wasn't socialised from being young which I've tried to put right by taking her to a local busy village in the car and then walking her around the block. She learns very quickly and is very bright.

Thanks
Helen

Posted by Preethi KOP
Nov 7, 2013

Hi Helen,

Thanks for writing in, Heidi certainly needs help if she is to continue staying with you all.

I need a few clarifications before I assist you with this problem. Do your parents live with you or does this happen when they visit? Also, at what age did you get Heidi and what is her average day like? Do you have any other pets at home? When you say she 'goes wild' could you please tell me what exactly she does? Also, what do you do in this situation and does she listen to you when you ask her to stop?

I am sorry I am replying to your query with more questions, but I would like to give you the best possible advice for which I need all the clues. I recommend having a read through the alpha training sections in the ebook for starters and getting your Mom actively involved in her feeding/walking/training etc.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Kind regards,
Preethi

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 7, 2013

Hi Preethi,
Thanks for your quick reply.
Both my brother and I still live at home even though we're in our 40's. Mum is the weakest family member and Dad isn't in the best of health really as both of them are in there 70's.
We've had Heidi since she was 8 weeks old.
Her average day is....
She sleeps in a cage in the lounge. My brother gets up first and straight off to work as it's about 6.30am. I'm up next at 7.15am and let her out. Then Mums up not long after. Mum usually feeds her. Then Dads up. I go to work and fuss her before I leave and give her a couple of treats as I'm leaving as I couldn't get out the door without her barking like mad. She's fine now.
We have a cat called Daisy who was abandoned near our house as we live in the country with fields all around. We took her in when our previous G.S dog was still alive as she was only a kitten. She'll be about 3 now. They don't get on. Heidi barks at her if she sees her or if we go into her . We did try to get them to be friends and they used to touch noses but Heidi was only a puppy then and Daisy would stand it for so long then just claw her. It's easier to keep them separate.
When Simon and I are at work if Mum and Dad stay in she plays with her toys and rests. If they go out they put her in her cage, although saying that they've left her in the lounge for the first time today and she's been fine. Simons home first then me. Mum usually gives Heidi her tea before any of us have ours. She still wants ours though. I watched Mum bring a drink in this morning without any trouble because she gave her a treat first. She used to, until recently listen to my Mum in the kitchen from the lounge and run up to my Mum barking and being aggressive. Mum just froze, one of us would grab Heidi and put her in her cage. She would go round and round in her cage and then stop but if Mum brought something in she would bark and look aggressive in fact she would react like that to all of us. Heidi stays with my Mum and brother at night as I'm usually on the computer. When it was lighter at night I used to take her for a walk to the next village but daren't do it now it's dark. She hated me putting the lead on (I've tried the choke chain plus a Halti) sometimes it would take me 15 mins to put the lead on. We've never had this trouble before it's as if she doesn't want to go!! Nobody else is interested in taking her. We've fenced the back garden off which is a decent size. She did a lot of digging in the summer so Dads laid some grass seed down so doesn't want her on the lawn now for a bit.
Brother usually plays with her but sometimes he's too tired and I have her with me. Dad stays in another room and Daisy stays upstairs until bedtime. Brother goes to bed first, then dad and Mum and I. We have no trouble what so ever getting Heidi into her cage at night. Then we feed Daisy and shut the door so she stays in a room downstairs. Heidi has the kitchen and lounge to call home. The dining room is Brothers office, utility, end room is my computer/craft room, other end room is dads room and Daisys room at night. We live in a big house but I think Heidi needs more space as she can't run free though the house downstairs. This has had mixed responses at home.
Recap....
She's a lovely dog, I know Daisy is a problem which before we bought Heidi we thought we could sort but when you're in grief you think differently. In practice it's a bit different. Dad threatening her with a stick has made things worse, she's defensive. Can't understand why she steals things and hides with them, is it attention seeking? Why is she o.k with Mum sometimes and not others? seems o.k if Mum gives her something to eat first. Is this the right thing to do? do you think it's fear aggression or dominance? She does the basic commands and is brilliant at sitting but if we talk to each other from across the room she barks? If she's being unruly I get her to sit which she does, that seems to calm the situation. Sometimes she doesn't hear me so I tend to say 'listen' then 'sit' which seems to work.

Doesn't make good reading does it?

Thanks in advance
Helen

Posted by Preethi KOP
Nov 9, 2013

Hi again Helen,

Thank you for that detailed response, it did clarify my questions about Heidi.

I personally feel that is a pack hierarchy issue with Heidi and that the only way to sort it out is to show her where her place is.Having a more complete obedience/alpha training with everyone in your family involved will be the path to quickest success. You see, right now, she knows that you are ahead of her in the pack as you have been training her, but with her being fed before you all in the evening, it enforces her "I am pack leader" attitude and she feels like it is her right to attention/food before any one else gets any. This is probably why she throws a fit if she sees your mom doing anything before feeding her first.

I recommend you try changing this schedule. Yes, it will be rough and she will probably bark her head off the entire while but give her NO attention whatsoever, not even a scolding. Ignoring a dog in this situation usually gets the point across faster. They are just like children, they soon learn to throw bigger tantrums if they get attention/lollies for doing so. The best thing to do the minute she starts barking while you all have your supper, would be to put her in a room with some toys/chewys for company and shut her in there. It will take a few days/weeks to reschedule this habit but with time she will hopefully change. Exercising her prior to sitting down to your supper will also help keep her more sedated. Also, when your mom feeds her, get her to make Heidi sit/lie down before she starts eating. This will reinforce her place in your pack. It might be good if your Dad and Brother occasionally do this as well. Heidi definitely needs more exercise, even if it is just chucking a ball/stick around for her in the yard. GSDs are very intelligent dogs and need environmental enrichment. If you have neighbours with dogs, I advise you to organise play dates with them and socialize her as much as possible, even if it is only during the weekends when you are free. I would also recommend working on putting the leash on her more often, it will help with the whole hierarchy thing. Again, like with everything else, try and get the rest of the family involved with this.

GSDs have a strong wolf-like sense and it is when they struggle to find their status in their pack that they are insecure and unpredictable. Once you correct this, you should end up with a calm and loving pet who will look up to you in situations of uncertainty and wait for your reaction to it before judging what to do. Be calm and assertive during this whole process. Tell your mom to be brave and resist showing her any fear, it will only upset the training process.

Thank you again for writing in and I hope my reply helps you. As I said in my previous reply to you, please do have a read through the alpha training section and get your whole family involved in the steps to establishing her pack status.

I wish you all and Hiedi the best. Do write back if you have any other queries. It would be fabulous to know of how training progresses, so if you have a moment to spare, please do let me know.

Kind regards,
Preethi

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 10, 2013

Hi Preethi,

Thanks for your quick reply and giving me hope.
I've printed off the Alpha Dog and Aggression downloads. Looked at the Secrets to Dog Training but at 256 pages I'll just print off what's relevant.

Todays been different...
I've put the Halti collar on Heidi about every hour for 2 minutes. As soon as she saw me with it she ran behind the chair and wouldn't come out. I moved the chair and guided her out with her collar. I sat in the chair and let Heidi sniff at the Halti but as soon as I tried to put it on she got up so I grabbed her collar and made her sit. I did struggle trying to put the Halti on not because of Heidi, she sat there while I was trying to not get it crossed and those clips are quite tight as well. I managed it in the end. she did paw at the side of her face to start with but not for long. The funny thing was she lay at the side of me in between 2 chairs as good as gold. I called her out to take the Halti off but she just lay there. I didn't want to push it so moved the chair and grabbed her collar and guided her to the chair. She sat no problem and I took the Halti off. I gave her a treat and she walked about looking so pleased with herself. The next time I did it went a lot better. I still had to move the chair and guide her out but the Halti went on straight away and she didn't fight me as she knew what I was going to do. I left it on again for 2 minutes and gave her a treat.

Then it was lunch time.....
I had my lunch on a tray which I brought in no problem and sat down, Simon did the same no problem. Heidi moved and laid on the 2 seater settee so she could watch Mum in the kitchen I said she's going to attack. Mum was brave and came in holding her tray. Heidi never barked until she went passed me then flew off the settee and jumped up Mum barking and being aggressive. I gave Simon my tray and grabbed hold of Heidi's collar. She flew her head around to bite my arm and did put her teeth up to it still barking and jumping up. Even though she did catch me with her teeth she hasn't marked my skin at all. I asked Simon to get her ball which he threw into the kitchen. I let go of Heidi and she scratched at the door. She never barked though just whimpered. Simon made me laugh as he'd left the yorkshire puddings on top of the cooker and was worried she may eat them but I said 'what's a bit of yorkshire pudding' Then he remembered he'd put some turkey breast in the oven. She was in there 15 minutes but after 10 minutes all was quiet. Simon and I went into the kitchen and as I opened the door she was laid at it all peaceful. Nothing was said, the yorkshire puddings were still intact but there were 3 tea towels on the floor. I went to pick them up no problem, she just looked at me. Normally she would fly at you for pinching HER stuff. Everything was fine. I went back into my craft room to type to you when I heard Heidi barking so I went to investigate......
Mum was stood up with my brother rubbing her back because she was coughing. Heidi was jumping up both of them barking. I went for Heidi's collar but missed it. She went behind the chair. Simon said I'll throw her the ball but she just looked at him and thought 'I'm not that daft' I pulled the chair out which Simon didn't want me to do but she just sat there and I grabbed her collar and guided her out. Simon threw her ball in to the kitchen and I let go of her collar and locked the door. She scratched at the door but didn't bark.
I really feel as if we're getting somewhere already. I'm going to carry on with the Halti sessions gradually going longer and then attach the lead. Then on my days off I'll take her for a walk.

Thanks for all your help, and I'll keep you posted of her progress.
Helen

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 10, 2013

Hi Preethi,

New update......
When I tried to put the Halti on Heidi the third time she wasn't having it. I got Simon involved, he held her and I tried to put it on. In the end her collar buckle prong came out of the hole in the collar and that was it. Simon managed to put the collar back on. Now I know I should have tried again but hadn't got any patience left.
When Dad came home Heidi barked her head off and I could hear Dad shouting at her so I went through to explain what I've learnt. His response was I'm not shutting her in the kitchen and will keep shouting at her!!!
I called a committee meeting with the 4 of us and read out what both you and I had put on the forum and basically where we go from here because it's not fare that I'm the only one disciplining Heidi. We all live here and have to work together or lose her. Dad had a change of heart and will give it a go.
At tea time I came through with my tea no problem, then Simon no problem but poor old Mum when she came in Heidi jumped up her barking and aggressive again. I was ready so got up, made the mistake of saying 'NO' but I'm learning too. I put her in the porch, Simon had already put her fleece throw down. I forgot her toys and then remembered the keys were in the outside door so couldn't lock it. Simon stayed at the door as she can undo it from the other side by jumping onto the handle. I got some more keys and locked the door. She only tried the door twice and no barking. When Mum went in to the kitchen she started up again but only jumping on the handle. She stayed in there about 20 minutes. I let her back in, she had a drink then got on to the settee and looked as if she'd been shot.
Next Mum said I'll have my drink of water in the kitchen........OH NO YOU WON'T. Me and Simon were in the lounge, Heidi was on the 2 seater settee but when she looked in to the kitchen at Mum she looked different, a lot calmer and not interested really. Mum came in positive straight passed Heidi, me and Simon without any problem. Heidi stayed where she was and never made a sound, just looked. Mum sat down and carried on talking as if nothing had happened. I reminded her what she'd just done and she said she was determined to show her who was boss. I couldn't believe it.
After that both Mum and Simon seem more positive that we can sort this. Now I know she'll test us because it's not what SHE wants but today has been a milestone and it's only the first day.
They explained to me how bad it's been for them EVERY night while trying to rest. Heidi has been taking Simon ANYTHING, bits of her rope, paper and just playing up and wanting attention. When he's said that's enough she's just done little nips with her front teeth and jumped on him. It's really got both of them down but tonight after her stint in the porch she's just stayed on the settee looking contented. Also she's been licking her bum a lot and getting all excited EVERY night sometimes twice. We had her spayed and thought that would stop it but it hasn't. Another problem we've never had before. Up to me starting to type this she hadn't done it yet tonight.
This has been really good therapy for me telling someone what's happening as I don't know the answers. I said tonight what would have happened if I'd not done all the research I've done in actually finding your website and both Mum and Simon said she would have gone. I find that really sad. I love Heidi to bits, she just needs tweaking. The last dog idolised Simon and I know he misses her but the rest of the family didn't exist. Everybody and every pet is different and Heidi will never be Saskia.
Mums worried about tomorrow with Dad because Simon and I are at work. I've told them we must stay consistent. I just hope he will not shout at her, but I know he will. It's difficult to grab a dog that's jumping up all teeth blazing and barking without getting annoyed yourself. I don't think Simon dare grab her collar in that situation and I'm not sure Dad will either.

I know I've rabbitted on but I'm so chuffed at today I wanted to tell you.
I would be interested in what you thought as to how we should actually get Heidi in to the porch without being bitten as there's only me dare grab her collar in that situation.

Kind regards
Helen

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 14, 2013

Hi
Preethi,
Just wanted to let you know things are going well with Heidi.
We've decided to make the sin bin the porch (inside). I give her a toy and leave her in there for about 15 to 20 mins. She doesn't bark which is out of character just nudges the door handle and scratches the door. It's made a huge difference already. Mum brings food/drinks in now without a problem. Heidi did bark tonight (first time in 2 days) when Mum brought a drink in but not aggressive so I got up and I swear she knew where she was going. I know she's testing us but I'm confident in the fact it's certainly the right thing to do. I'm teaching her the basic commands (drop it, sit, catch and throw) through play with her ball and Kong. She even knows which is which. Working on stay (which she knows) and down.
I found the Alpha download very interesting.
Kind regards
Helen

Posted by Preethi KOP
Nov 16, 2013

Hi Helen,

I love your determination and your ability to see the glass half full even in this challenging situation. Congratulations on the progress and thank you for the constant updates. Keep up the great work, Heidi will be a well behaved dog before you even realise.

It is wonderful that you had a meeting with your family and got everyone involved. I really really hope things work out for Heidi.

Keep having faith in her and be persistence with the whole training process. You will see the difference in no time!

Again, all the very best.

Kind regards,
Preethi

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 18, 2013

Hi Preethi,
Things are still going very well with Heidi and we've not had any signs of an attack for quite a few days until last night. Mum came in to me crying saying Heidi had jumped up and bitten her leg. I looked but there was no mark. I went in to the lounge looked at Heidi who did a turn around and went straight in to her bed. I followed her in to her cage and quietly grabbed her collar and took her straight to the sin bin. She was like a little lamb. I left her in there for quite a while. While she was in there I went through things with Mum. Turned out she prepared something for Simon and Heidi nudged her for something to eat. Mum gave her a taste then walked in to the lounge with Simons food, that's when she attacked. I said 'why did you feed her first and did she normally?' Mum said she didn't know why she'd done it and she hadn't been doing. I explained about feeding her last and she admitted she'd forgotten. Also when I let Heidi out of the sin bin she went straight to her bowl which just had a few dry biscuits in. I asked Mum when she was last fed. She'd had her normal quota but then we realised we've not been giving her any tip bits. I gave her some biscuits and meat and she never stopped eating, I gave her another half scoop of biscuits and meat and she ate that too. Poor thing must have been starving. She's been great since then, even the same night. Mum wanted to chicken out when it came to bringing a drink in but I persuaded her to act as normal. Heidi was great and never bothered.
Simons interacting with Heidi a lot more. He's been grieving over Saskia our last G S dog who idolised him. Probably felt guilty loving another dog and disloyal?
I really feel as if I've got this thing sussed, after a very upsetting keep her/lose her situation. She KNOWS when she's done wrong and the sin bins a fantastic yet simple punishment that's not aggressive to calm the aggression. In fact while I write she's in there. We've done some Xmas shopping today and when we came in she stuck her head in to one of the bags and took a ribbon bow off one of the presents. I thought it was funny we'd bought one with a bow missing. When I sat in the chair I noticed she'd gone to the side of the settee (her favourite hiding place) I looked down and she'd got the bow in her mouth. I asked her to drop it but she didn't want to. I tried to get the bow out of her mouth. She showed me her teeth so I grabbed her collar and quietly put her in the sin bin. She knew where she was going and went quietly. She's been very quiet this time, usually she jumps on the door handle quite a lot but only at the beginning this time. I've heard the odd cry but that's all. Mums just come through to let her out, no problem.
There's a lot of little things I want to work on like getting out the house without giving her a couple of treats and her not barking at us if we talk to each other from room to room. The issue with food had to be sorted first though. My Mum, Dad and brother are working with me because they can see it's working. She a lot more contented and not always demanding attention. We still play catch etc but she's also happy to lay and chew her toys as well.

Kind regards
Helen

Posted by Preethi KOP
Nov 20, 2013

Hi Helen,

I am absolutely delighted hearing all this. Thank you so much for taking the time to write back to me and give me all this great feedback.

I am glad that Heidi has someone who will vouch for her and a family that is willing to give her a second chance. I agree with you on the feeding thing, I too would recommend that you focus on one issue at a time. I will however suggest that you take her for a walk/play fetch even if she is content with her toys. It is an important aspect of good health especially in a large breed dog like Heidi.

Keep up the fantastic work!

Kind regards,
Preethi

Posted by helen-rich-2
Nov 23, 2013

Hi Preethi,

Thank you for your kind words it means such a lot.
I will keep in touch with Heidi's progress.
I've recommended your product to some colleagues at work who are having issues with their dogs as I believe in the teaching techniques so much.
I know putting Heidi in the porch when she's been naughty is only the tip of the iceberg but Heidi has gained so much respect for me and my family through this one technique alone. She's a lot happier dog who loves us a lot more and vice versa. The atmosphere in the house is lighter too. She tests the boundaries which is to be expected but as I've said to my family time and time again we must be consistent so she doesn't get confused. She reminds me of my childhood as I used to test the boundaries too!!!

Kind regards

Helen

Posted by Preethi KOP
Nov 25, 2013

Hi Helen,

It makes me just as happy to hear all that you have to say. Thank you for being a believer in our techniques and not just trying them out and giving up but following through with the passion that you have. Also, thanks for promoting our product at your workplace, most kind of you.

Best wishes now and always to you, your family and Heidi.

Kind regards,
Preethi.

Posted by helen-rich-2
Dec 11, 2013

Hi Preethi,
Just wanted to give you an update on Heidi.
We now have NO problems with Mum bringing food or drinks in to the lounge. She's a completely different dog. I'm carrying on with putting her in the porch if she's naughty and she now knows I definitely will carry it out. This is getting less frequent in fact she's not been in there at all today. I also take ANYTHING off her whether it's stolen or not without any reaction from Heidi. She makes me laugh sometimes because if she steels something she brings it to me knowing I'll take it off her. Mum feeds Heidi last and that's definitely helped with the food situation.
I have her with me at night in my computer room, she gets really excited when I say shall we go and do some crafting. We play catch and throw first, then she's contented to just chew her ball. Mum, Dad and Bro don't always put her in the porch if she's been naughty, just her cage where she sleeps which annoys me. Sometimes they will call me to sort a situation, she looks at me and heads for her bed!! Last night we had a wonderful night, she laid at my feet in my craft room. Then she started jumping about so I thought she wanted to go out because we were at the other end of the house. I took her through to the lounge where she decided it was a game. In the end she growled at me, that was it. I thought there's only one place your going lady!!! It took me a while to catch her but in the end I grabbed her collar and marched her to the porch. I left her in there for about an hour, never heard a squeak. When I let her out she was so pleased to see me and had calmed down.
Tonight has been brilliant because she's laid at my feet whilst I've been doing some craft work. She loves to be loved as well now where as before she just used to nibble at you if you stroked her much. I love her to bits and the respect she now shows me is staggering.
The next problem to tackle is the barking. We can't stop her. I haven't read up on that in the download yet.

Kind regards
Helen

Posted by Preethi KOP
Dec 18, 2013

Hi Helen,

That's fantastic news! You are definitely pack leader to Heidi now and you should be very proud of what you have achieved. German Shepherds are one of the most strong-willed breeds and thus the hardest to train into submission. Like I said before, targeting one problem at a time is the best way to go. Once you feel you have won this first battle then have a read through the ebooks on the ways to curb barking. You can use a similar strategy with regard to punishment. Time-outs seem to work like magic on Heidi. Make sure you reward her when she is good and never stop encouraging her.

Best wishes to you and Heidi.

Kind regards,
Preethi

Aggressive towards family members