Kingdom of Pets

Posted by Marvin
Dec 10, 2009

We have a little problem with our 10 months old German Shepherd. He is neutered, attended puppy school, 2 weeks boarding school and now he is currently in obedience classes. He is very good in class and on the leash and he listens most of the times. He has a problems with other dogs, he doesn't like them to get too close to him or sniff him. He is fine with our 2 other dogs and our cat, but he just doens't like other dogs. That is not the only problem. When he is in the backyard and the neighbour dog is out too (she is a pretty aggressive and loud dog) starts barking and growling at the fence and he would just ignore you until you go outside and physically remove him from there, sometimes he gets too caught up in the moment it is really hard to pull him away. He usually comes when called, but not when he sees that dog! He is not like that outside when he meets other dogs, he just looks at them, growls a little but after we correct him he is fine. Also he keeps playing, sometimes hard, with our older dog Marvin, he is 11 and he is a scottish terrier/poodle mix. He doesnt' do that wiht our other dog, a 6 year old Bichon Frise, he seems to respect him as he always puts him back in his place every time he bothers him. He keeps trying to play with Marvin, trying to put toys in his mouth or stealing his cookies or bones. Sometimes he tries to bite his tail or his neck, trying to carry him around. He doesn't look like he is is hurting him, but he is such a big dog compared to Marvin and I am afraid he will actually hurt him. Plus whne he is playing with him and he is without his collar he wont listen, you have to put his collar on and the leash and after that he will listen to the commands. We do the Alpha training with him and we don't allow him on couches, bed and he sleeps in a crate. The 2 other dogs are allowed on the couch, are fed before him and are greeted before him too. He is a good dog, listens and well trained, but he just has that problem. What are we doing wrong? Maybe he is still too young and wants to play? Any suggestions?
Thank you for your help

Posted by kjd
Dec 10, 2009

HI, Marvin,

Your GSD is fence-running. My own theory is they know they won't have to try to carry out any threats because they are safely separated by the fence. So they snarl up and down: "Wait until I get ahold of you. You'll never no what hit you!" "You and what two other dogs?" If the fence suddnely disappeared, they would be shocked -- and probably try to find another piece of it. My GSD would do this with our neighbor's dog. Put them out front where they could actually reach one another and they were the best of friends.

However, when you call, the dog should come. Makes no difference how much fun he is having (and they are having fun). When he does return to you, how do you reward him? Fence-running is sooo much fun, you should have an extra-special reward until he is returning to you regularly.

Try upping the reward and see if that helps.

Let us know how things turn out,
kjd

Posted by Marvin
Dec 11, 2009

Hi Kjd, thanks for your reply. Well in the obedience class the dogs are not rewarded with treats but with positive reinforcement (lots of petting, praises) so we reward him like that. I guess we should start reward him with treats for the come command? Inside the house he comes all the time, even when we take him for walks and we practice the commands, but in the backyard he just doesn't listen! Some days he is better than others. The trainer also said that at this age they are like rebellous teens and they try to test their boundaries...Any other suggestion on how to make him more comfortable around other dogs? And what about him always trying to "harrass" my older dog? I think he is trying to be dominant over Marvin, he doens't let him go through doors, hallways, he is always trying to get him away from us. Some days he just doesn't leave him alone! Always nipping at him, trying to make him play. He doesn't seem to be doing that in an aggressive way, but Marvin is old and he doesn't need all that stress! I always intervene and make him lay down and stay but then after a while he starts again! Any suggestions in how to make him more gentle with Marvin and also less nervous and snappy around other dogs? Another thing too, he seems to have food aggression with my other 2 dogs, he is fine with people around his food but not with the dogs. He also growls when in his cage and the other dogs go by it. We usually punish him by telling him "NO", sometimes he stops sometimes he starts again. Thank your for your help.

Posted by kjd
Dec 11, 2009

Hi, Marvin,
Since food is a positive reinforcer, I'd use it until I got a reliable recall even when at the back fence.

As for fixing the pack position between your two dogs, you will notice that I rarely get into that. I've had two dogs twice. First time, the older dog, Loki, was dominant and the younger, newer dog, Halla, was submissive. I never had any problems. Then Loki died and I brought in Freka, younger, newer, and dominant. Dumb me I wanted the older dog, Halla, whom I'd known longer, to be dominant, but she was still submissive. All I managed to do was have the two dogs fight whenever I was around. If I wanted to stop the fight, all I had to do was leave banging the door to let them know I was gone. I didn't have this resource and really had no idea what to do. After four years of this, I realized I didn't want to live in a war zone. One of my brothers had a boarding kennel and kept Freka while I and the animal shelter searched for a new home. We finally found that perfect home a year later. I didn't like the solution, but it was all I had. At least I didn't have to return her to the shelter and run the risk of her being put down because of my lack of knowledge. But that makes me a non-expert in your problem. Read some of the other threads concerning the positions of multiple dogs. You may find some ideas there.

Let me know how the fence-running goes and good luck on the pack position,
kjd

Posted by crazycrayonmom
Dec 14, 2009

I know a dog trainer who has a yellow lab who doesn't like other dogs. She uses him for demos in classes. He is calm and does exactly as she requests and doesn't even look at the other dogs. If a dog comes too close to his kennel or to him in person then he gets snarky. The instructor says it's her job to keep dogs away from him and he knows it. That's why he doesn't get nasty when he sees dogs. He knows she will keep them far enough away. She also teaches her dogs to roll belly-up on command and he will even do that with dogs all around. It's very impressive and shows just how important it is having your dog trust you and understand that you are alfa.

For the fence running thing, I have a black lab mix, Koko who likes to get aggressive with neighbor dogs at the fence line. I have instituted a strict "no fence" policy. I did that by staying in the yard with Koko and every time she approached the fence to bark at the neighbor dogs (who bark and fence run like crazy, teasing her unmercifully) I stand between her and the fence with my arms out wide to the side and say "no fence" backing her away with my body. When she turns and ignores the fence she gets a reward. When the neighbor dogs are out she mostly stays away from the fence with a few reminders necessary on occasion. I can't control what my neighbors let their dogs do but I can control what mine do. It takes time and patience but it worked for me. Good luck!

Posted by Marvin
Dec 15, 2009

Hi Crazycrayonmom, our dog is the same too, in class he is very good, always focused on the handler but he just doens't want other dogs bothering him...the trainer said what you just said too, it is our job to keep other dogs away from him so that he can trust us and see us as the Alpha. I guess some dogs are just like that! The good thing is that he deosn't really care about other dogs on the street and he doesn't try to get to them or attack them. For the fence thing, that is what we usually do to, get in between the dog and fence! If we are out with him, he listens and he gets away from the fence, the problem is when he is out and we are inside and we call him to get awya from the fence, that is when it gets tricky! I guess we just need to work with him using treats, plus he is still young too and full of energy. He is a good dog! Should I worry that he could hurt my 2 other dogs? He seems like he is playing with them when he tries to bite them, he doesn't look like he is attacking them or trying to hurt them...I know he is trying to establish his dominance over them, it is not working with the little bichon frise, he is still in charge, but he is dominant over Marvin and Marvin just takes it. That is my main concern, that one day he will hurt one of my dogs to establish his alpha status...
Thank you everybody for the help
Have a Happy Holiday

Dog doesn't listen