Have brought a young foster into an older established pack. Foster April has issues with 1 of pack as well as some dogs she meets offleash after initial meet and greet. How do I determine if she is fearful or trying to be dominant?
I am glad that you came to the forum. In order to let people know the background of April's issue, I am copying your message that was sent to me a few days ago:
{Maybe you can help. I rescue St. Bernards. My pack consists of 5 dogs, most of whom will be 8 yrs. over the next few months. I recently pulled a dog from the shelter that was to be put down. She is young. I put her at no more than 2yrs. if that. She had been adopted but as the story goes when she was put in the backyard with the 2 residing dogs a fight ensued and she and all her wounds were removed from there and surrendered to another shelter which was where I came in. When she first meets another dog she seems fine and then will suddenly turn and attack. I had introduced her to my pack one at a time and she was fine at first but within minutes she would show some sign of fear/aggression towards them. Generally a low quick growl if the dog moved and made her nervous. I introduced them from lowest on heirarchy ladder to my alpha female and even with her she was fine for the first few minutes but then I saw she was tensing up and interceded just before she could start a fight. She is definately more Alpha than my female but I do not feel as though I should let her take over that role with my pack as I am fostering her until a forever home can be found. The idea was for me to have her here with my gentle giants so that she could see that not all dogs would attack her. I don't know if I am reading the situation right or not but I think that maybe she was not around other dogs after she left her litter before being put at the pound and then into an established pack. I can not determine if it is fear or a need for dominance that drives her. I took her to an off leash place when I thought she was ready and amongst hundreds of dogs she was fine and no issues. A few days later we were walking the hills and a dog ran up to us and she was fine with it for about 4 minutes then turned and attacked it. Several days later she did the same thing to another dog of a different color, fine for a few minutes then not fine. She calls off and is not overly aggresive when she starts these attacks. A couple of days ago I was not able to head it off and she went at my female that by that time had had enough. She had my dog down and when I pulled her away my dog went at her repeatedly until my husband was able to get out to pull our dog away. I have the foster back on a muzzle most of the time and watch her every move trying to keep the peace but this will not help her if I do not find a way to get her past this. You have had experience in this. What are your thoughts. Thanks}
Now, to answer your question whether it is a fear aggression or dominant aggression, you will need to watch her body language; her tail position, hackles up or not, showing teeth, pawing on the other dog, sending any calming signals (looking away, yawning, licking own lips, scratching ground, etc.), as well as whether April is the one that approaches to the other dog, or she gets approached by other dogs.
Dogs with fear aggression usually try to avoid face-to-face approach to stranger dogs when off-leashed. Your foster might be just lacking of socialization when she was a puppy.
Either case, I would put her in the bottom of your pack. Some dogs that are not qualified for the leader but think they need to be the leader despite their poor confidence level have a tendency to act up and get into fights.
As the REAL leader of your pack, I hope YOU can sort them out and give her guidance, which includes she is the bottom of the pack
Thank you so much for your response. I have never had any of my dogs attack another and it has been quite unsettling to say the least. On two occassions where April attacked the other dog one came to her and the other time the dog she attacked was in a group of dogs and April approached it. The tail is usually down and while body is somewhat tense no hair is standing and there is no growling. Initial contact goes well without undue emotion. Strangely, it would seem that if dogs are in place when April gets there she is fine as I have 3 times taken her to the dog park, muzzle on and she has been fine. The two times she attacked the other dog was when we had been in place and other dog arrived on scene later. The day she attacked my dog was when I was coming in with them from backyard and while trying to keep myself between the two higher energy girls another dog blocked the doorway causing a bottleneck and she turned and attacked my female. I put it off as to having felt trapped and have continued to work with her to help her gain confidence and to learn how to act with other dogs if it is about fear while putting her last in the general scheme of things if it is about dominance. I am pack leader and on the face of it she seems to except that and obeys commands when given. A couple of days ago April was just wandering around the house while I was doing chores. My female was sleeping on couch along with one of the males and the cat. I was 4 feet away when I heard a fight start. There was no growl or any outward sign although I had my back turned. I wheeled around to see April's front feet over the arm of the couch where my dog had been sleeping and their faces locked onto one anothers and no holds barred. My female at that point fell backwards off the couch to the floor on her back. I grabbed April's collar and by that time my husband arrived on the scene to grab our dog. April was removed to the back of the house while our dog remained at the front with me and the other dogs. I did not console her although every part of me wanted to. I could not be sure she had not started the situation with a low growl I hadn't heard. She has never started a fight but rises to the challenge if one is given. It was the first situation in weeks and I had let my guard down for a moment. Again April was put back in the muzzle and E collar. She is fine with the other 4 dogs but they have a much lower ranking in pack. I just can't figure her out. I am no expert on dogs by any means but am usually o.k. at reading them. This girl has me stumped. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I think you did the right thing to remove April after the fight. I don't care which dog started the fight but in my opinion, April is the one that needs to adjust herself to the established pack. She needs to follow the rules of your household and it is better for her to be introduced to such rules because she will have to learn to respect an exisiting dog and new rules of her forever home when she finds one. Otherwise, she will be kept returned like she was before coming to your home. Please don't feel bad about giving her timeouts when she doesn't behave nicely.
I assume all the other dogs are male, correct? That's why there is a competition between your female and April all the time. My dogs never get into fights with my foster dogs but I see clearly that opposite sexes are easier to get along. I have 1 boy and 2 girls My 3 dogs are so tight among themselves and they don't let any foster dogs to join their plays. However, all my foster dogs get influenced by my 3 dogs very much and they learn most of basic commands by just watching and copying my dogs. They also learn how to respect each other including our cats as they live with us for a while. I hope April will soon learn how to behave and be accepted by your pack soon
Good morning and thanks again. Sorry I had not followed protocol at the start. I was just eager to see someone that did fostering as well that might have had some experience in this type of situation as I was desperate. My pack is actually mostly female. April gets along fine with the other 2 as they are both very low key. She has a crush on one of the males but does not know how to act with him. She tries very hard to get him to play but goes at it all wrong. The other male is very big and I think his sheer size intimidates her as she has growled at him when he moves towards her. Yesterday I had her on the floor next to me as I was brushing the female Jasmine that she goes after, with the big boy Tatanka on the couch above her. She had been rubbing noses with him but when he went to get up she came up snarling. I pinned her to the floor and told her very sternly that she was bad and she was very submissive after that, just lay with belly up and calm. I have no qualms with being stern with her as I know that be it fear or plain aggression that is what is needed to correct the situation. As for the other dogs not of my pack, she has shown aggression with both males and females, all fixed. She has no issue with small dogs at all. Everything seems to be pointing to fear so I will approach it that way, getting her more accustomed to other dogs and trying to steer her clear of dogs I know to be less social and more dominant oriented. That won't help much with dogs I don't know but it is a start. My biggest concern at this point is her not feeling ill at ease with Jasmine. I think if I can get her over that hurdle the rest will come more readily. I truly appreciate your input. The more ideas and input I have the better my chances of sucess with her. I may end up being a failed foster which just makes it all the more critical that I get her truly socialized. Thank you again. SCL
Thank you for the picture of your pack!! They really take up space, don't they You look sooooo happy by being surrounded by your babies Which one is April? I hope she is getting along better with the female
I was thinking that maybe your top female is not really a dominant dog and she also feel a little uneasiness when April approaches to her and the nervous feeling can be sensed by April and trigger the fear aggression from the both girls? If that is the case, as your female gets more comfortable to have April around, things will improved significantly, I hope.
In the mean time, I am hoping your dogs will teach April the manners. Dogs are more straight forward by snapping or growling/barking towards April so the they can be the best teachers and role models
It's Friday! Yeah! I am looking forward to spending more time with my pack
Good morning and hope you are out with your pack. April is the one directly in front of me with choke chain on that I am slightly blocking from my other female Kabuki. The female Jasmine is the one with back to camera looking at me. Jasmine is not an alpha but has always had a stronger personality than the rest of my pack. We rescued her just before she turned 2 yrs. and while she is higher in heirarchy she has never pushed her weight around. She has never started a fight but will never back away even from this stronger, younger dog. She, as with all of them are leery. The others just freeze when April comes near and Jasmine keeps a close watch on her at all times. I am the one who is on edge and I know they feel it. I try not to be but the idea that they might get into it when I am alone with them has me totally unhinged. The other dogs, save one will not scold her as they are afraid of her. The male she has a crush on did scold her yesterday and I thought she was going to attack him when he did. I was right there and grabbed her and steered her away quickly and she settled. It may have been excited play advance but he had told her no and she did not listen. He is very frail and unstable in his back end so is not able to interact as she would like. A big part of her problem is that she is to aggresive in her attempts to engage them in play. She runs up on them at full speed barking and sometimes hitting them with her head or body and they just freeze up. I am trying to get her to understand that this is not the way to approach another dog but she has not fully gotten it yet, although it does seem to be getting better. She runs with them more but I am always worried that she will go at the other female with no way for me to get to them quickly especially when they are hidden by brush or trees and I can not see the interaction between. At this point I am just trying to buy time, hoping she will get used to the ways of other dogs and build confidence and understanding. Hope your weekend is/was great! SCL
