Kingdom of Pets

Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Mar 11, 2010

Hi,

I have been wondering about the following two opposite protocols when you want to correct fearful behaviors of dogs:

1) Some books/trainers say:

You must never pay any attention/no treats to your dog at all if he/she is showing fearful behavior. Instead, ignore your dog totally not even talk to him/her because giving attention when your dog shows fearfulness will reinforce that particular behavior.

2) Other books/trainers say:

As soon as your dog alerts to the stranger, you begin feeding him the luscious treats one after the other as quickly as he can eat them. It is important that no matter how your dog behaves you continue to feed. Remember we are not rewarding "correct" or "incorrect" behavior; we are working on changing the dog's emotional state.

I personally think it is important to change your dog's emotional state in order to help him overcome the fear. As I observe Noah's tense/nerveousness there is a threshold where his aggression turns on. I would even talk to my dog saying "Be good, it's OK. You will be fine" as I pet him to calm him down. I don't think this is reinforcing his fearful behavior.

They are totally different approches and I am interested to hear what others would think/prefer or have any experiences of using either method. Thanks!

Posted by kjd
Mar 11, 2010

My preference would certainly be to change the emotions.

The trainers who push option one don't make it sound quite as stark as you stated it, yet I think your statement lays it out well: If your dog is frightened, ignore him and let him "tough it out"! Why did I add the "tough it out"? Because that is what ignoring someone is asking them to do. Can you imagine totally ignoring your 5-yr-old when he is afraid of the dark? Since we understand the human language, we can use language more easily to change the emotional state. With a dog, food can take the place of language. I find it hard to believe that a child being fed candy while he shakes during a thunderstorm would feel he was being giving the candy because shaking is good. The dog cannot eat and maintain a high state of fear at the same time. The eating, then, works at calming the fear. And no dog is so stupid he doesn't connect the food with the situation rather than his reaction.

Besides, most dogs cannot eat when they are scared ~~mine don't~~ so, as long as the food is being gobbled down, the dog's fear is being controlled.

I know we aren't supposed to treat dogs like humans, but sometimes it makes sense to compare two mammals.

With thunderstorms, I've tried ignoring (hard to do at night when I want to sleep) and I've tried cuddling. The results appeared to be similar. The dogs didn't become more frightened. In fact, a bit of cuddling usually sped up the dog's returning to a calm state after the thunder.

Hope this response is not too convoluted.
kjd

Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Mar 12, 2010

kjd,

Thank you for your response. I totally agree with you on the comparison of kids and dogs when they are frightened by a thunder.

In fact, I once had a foster dog on a stormy summer night and there were lightenings and thunders. Otis, a beautiful red and white border collie mix, started climbing up on me when I was sitting on the couch. He was trembling and panting nervously so I ended up sleeping with him on the couch overnight. I could not ignore his fearful state. And you know what? That is the way to speed up gaining dogs' trust on me. It does not make the dog think he is superior than me. Instead he would up to me as a trustworthy leader.

Relationship between a dog and his owner boils down to how much they trust each other. If a dog trusts his owner, he would listen to the owner and ask for directions. He would look at every movement/subtle signs/expressions/moods of the owner, not because he is forced by the superficial power of the owner, but because he loves and he knows the owner would never betray him.

That is my ultimate goal for the relationship/partnership with my dogs and my foster dogs.

kjd, have you seen a video of "Skidboot the dog"? If you haven't I recommend you see it on the YouTube.

Posted by kjd
Mar 12, 2010

Thank you, MaxHollyNoah.

I'd never even heard of Skidboot before. He and his owner are amazing! David Hartwig may think it is all the dog, but it takes a person with humility to train a dog like that.

kjd

Posted by crazycrayonmom
Mar 19, 2010

I'm a fan of the distraction technique as well. Whether you use treats or a beloved toy, if it takes the dogs attention away from what's bothering them and puts them in a more relaxed mood it's a good thing. I first learned this technique about 14 years ago from an animal behaviorist who was working with my friends GSD. She was a very fearful dog. Sayde's treat of choice was always her tennis ball. That dog loved to play catch. The first thing my friend did with anyone who came into the house was to hand them a tennis ball and make them play catch with Sayde. It worked like a charm.

Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Mar 29, 2010

Thank you crazycrayonmom and kjd

So, giving some encouragement or distraction to a dog being scared is not giving the dog a message that being scared is rewarding so he can continue to be a fearful dog, right?

That is my point! Being scared is a natural feeling/state of a dog. It should be approached differently from correction of bad behaviors, such as pulling a leash, or barking, or jumping. I think it should be approached in the way that the dog can build confidence little by little. Ignoring a scared dog would not help him to get confidence.

Posted by kjd
Mar 29, 2010

My behavioralist pointed out you shouldn't force a dog to something it's scared of; the dog should approach on its own.

My first dog was scared of pistols. One brother came in the house with an air gun and she stayed well away from him. When he laid it on the floor to go answer the phone, she cautiously came over to sniff it. (We all think she was pistol-whipped when she was a puppy; it was the gun in someone's hand that scared her.) The bravest thing I ever saw was the day that same brother was sitting out on the back porch. A neighborhood kid approached with a cap pistol. She went out on the porch, gently took my brother's hand, led him through the kitchen, into the diningroom to a chair; then, once he was safely sitting, she left him.

Fearful dogs