Max, Protective agression?

Posted by Jaime-Blanch
Nov 10, 2008
About 5 years ago I rescued a cat from the RSPCA, Peter, then about three years ago I moved from my flat to a house and as I was working 3 minutes away from my house I decided to get a puppy. Mya is a female staffi x German S (20 months old now), I have to admit it was not easy, she is a very clever dog, can open doors (Doors that to open you have to pull and lock with a round door handle), open the freezer and the draws inside, she opens and empty the washing machine but only after the cloths have been washed, etc... (Luckily this behaviour has now stopped)
She has always loved other dogs and to play with them (Mainly chasing), she is good at recall (there are exceptions were she chooses not to listen but they are minimal and they happen in the park were we always go, when we go to new places she will stay near me at all times), and she will always stay in sight when she is off the lead (I do tend to hide a lot and make her look for me when she doesn't keep attention of were I'm).
Overall I think she is a good dog but a bit spoiled, also, she is indifferent to new people in the park, inside the house she will accept women and kids, but for some reason she is not very keen on new man.

As I mention before, she loves the company of other dogs so on July we decided to look for a companion for Mya, we look around and found Max, an 8 month old Collie x labrador (he is now 1year old), the family I got him from had to let him go because could not afford to keep him, he was very loved and has a very nice nature and when we visited him with Mya they got on straight away.
Max integrated very quickly in to the house, him and Mya develop a very strong bond, there are no fights between them (also they ignore the cat except when Peter wants to go out, they both follow him outside as I have a dog flap, but the three of them will happily sleep together in the bed, and they leave his food alone) they respect each other at feeding times, we give them bones, treats and no fights, my guess is that Mya is the dominant one (she has also calm down since Max is in the house, behaving a lot more mature).
Outside, Max was also the prefect dog, very affectionate and submissive towards people and playful with all other dogs, his recall was perfect every time.

About two months ago he started to bark at other dogs that were playing a bit to rough with Mya or jump on me (regardless if they were male or female dogs), I tried to stop him by saying no and ignoring him when he got near me, but he didn't stop, actually got worse, he started meeting all other dogs in a dominant manner and if they didn't go submissive he will try to nip them in the neck, so every time he tried that I would put him on the lead for the rest of the walk, again, this made things worse, now it gets to the point that I keep him on the lead when in the park and if another dog comes near he will wait until they are near enough and attack them.

In the mornings I go to a golf club at 6 for an hour were there is only a couple of other dogs that he gets on with, and today he was actually playing with one of them (female) to be honest the worse aggression is when he is on the lead, but I just don't trust him. In October I had him castrated and so far has made no effect (I know it can take up to 6 months to notice any changes), I have asked the old owner if Max ever behaved that way with him and he said no.

The aggression is only with other dogs, including the ones he was playing with for hours when I first got him. And all my attempts to correct it is just making things worse. In the house I do the typical thing, dogs are not allowed in the sofa, I eat before them, I go trough doors or stairs first, when I get in from work I ignore them until they calm down, ignore them if they demand attention. One thing, is that they have the run of the house while I'm working, and as I have a dog flap they have access to outside. He is also very submissive inside the house, he will go down on his back as soon as he see us coming towards him, we only need to tell him a comand once, outside (if there are no other dogs around) he will again be the perfect dog, will come evry time at recall, he also comes to me very often without calling him.

I want him to be able to run and play in the park like Mya does and as the days go by I'm seeing that chance sleep away and have to admit I need help.
Posted by Jaime-Blanch
Nov 13, 2008
Hi,

I have (out of desperation) booked an appointment with a dog listener this Sunday (I'm trying to do all I can to make sure Max does not attack another dog), initially I though they were the same as dog whisperers but I'm not so sure now. When I bought sitstayfetch I started putting into practice the rules of the alpha dog, as I mention before Max is really good inside the house, very submissive, but still, I just want to make sure I do all I can, and put into practice all of the suggestions, and he is still as submissive as before, as soon as he sees me coming he just rolls over tummy up, I can pick up bones, food, toys or anything he has in his mouth without a problem, to be honest I have always been able with both of my dogs. At meals time when I come from work and start cooking my dinner they are not allowed in the kitchen, I don't even have to close any doors.

Any way, going back to my point, I'm seeing a dog listener on Sunday, and reading around my perception is that they focus all efforts in establishing the owner as the alpha dog as a wolf would do in the wild (obviously I'm summarising). My question is...Do anybody has any experience with dog listeners, specially when dealing with aggression?

I have also purchased a spray collar as I want to start going back to the doggy park (instead of a deserted golf club at 6 am) so he can start meeting other dogs, what is the best way to use this gadget when meeting other dogs?
Posted by Jaime-Blanch
Nov 17, 2008
Hi,

I thought that I would post an update as to how the weekend went.

Saturday I went to the doggy park armed with the new spray collar and my two dogs (The collar has three buttons, 1st makes a Beep Beep noise, 2nd gives a quick spray and 3rd gives a 5 second spray). I talked to a trainer on how the best way to use the collar was and this is how I did.

I had Mya off the lead and waited around until one dog started approaching me and Max, I made max seat by me and I started giving him treats and talking really nicely, as soon as he started ignoring me and take an aggressive posture I pressed the 1st button, the noise did trough him out of that aggressive trance and made him focus on me again, as the other dog kept approaching Max again went for the aggressive behaviour and I press the 1st button again, this time the noise was not enough (by this time the other dog was within 6 feet from us) so I pressed the 2nd button, the collar gave a quick spray and got Max out of the trance and again he focused on me, so I continued praising him and giving him treats, the other dog went away as soon as he heard the spray, but within seconds he was back, the same scenario went on and had to spray Max, but this time the other dogs curiosity made him stay, after a few seconds Max was back to his aggressive gesture but this time as soon as he heard the Beep beep he focused on me again and ignored the other dog (at this time they were side by side) I was able to give both a treat then they both sneef each other and nothing else happened, I repeated this three times and didn't have to use the spray, the beep beep was enough and the praise was continuos from me. I finally took Max off the lead and let him run free (always making sure that he stayed by me) to be honest the worst aggression has always been on the lead and off the lead he was very playful and did a lot of chasing and been chased by the other dogs, by this time he started associating the beep beep with coming to me for treats and praise, so if there was a couple of dogs playing too rough barking and fighting I would just beep the collar and he would immediately come to me. I manage to meet 10 new dogs and at one point we had 20 dogs playing and running together and for a change dog owners were not giving me the look of how dare you bring an aggressive dog near mine, instead they were saying what a good dog he was and how good his recall was.

I have to admit that the praise was the more important thing, the only thing the spray does is take the dog out of the trance, the important thing is what you decide to do next. All in all I felt that Saturday it was a success and only had to use the spray twice.

Sunday was more or less the same as Saturday and had to use the spray twice but at the end I had max playing with sticks with other dogs.

I would never recommend the use of this collar without proper advise from a professional, the collar on its own does not stop aggressive behaviour, and the praise and positive reinforcement play a bigger part.

Also Sunday I had the dog listener, she banned me of the use of the collar and after a while we manage to pinpoint the reason for Max behaviour. I have now a plan to follow (their form of training its very similar to the one stated in SitStayFetch). I'm not saying that I will stop the use of the collar, as I feel that I still need some back up in case things go out of hand, but I will follow the plan.
Posted by Jaime-Blanch
Nov 17, 2008
Hi,

Here are some pictures from saturday were Max was with other dogs, if you look on my profile you will see who Max is.
Posted by KOPsBecks
Nov 17, 2008
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Thank you so much for posting your success story, it helps me to give others advice if I can see what works for people in different situations. I'm so happy for you, Max and Mya, hopefully all walks will be filled with fun, games and meeting new friends now! Glad to hear that those spray collars work, I think that used correctly and sparingly they can be a helpful training tool for dogs who have developed a serious problem. They do definitely help break the trance and yes it is your reaction which makes all the difference, the collar is only complimentary to your praise.

Thanks again and good luck with everything, wonderful photos by the way!!

Becks