Kingdom of Pets

Posted by jlynn9573
Feb 12, 2008

I know it is very important for a dog to get exercise. I believe that a majority of my dog's problems stem for his lack of exercise. However, therein lies my problem. I am pretty much incapable of walking my dog. He walks me. Amos is a 2 1/2 year old redbone coonhound. He drags me around where ever we go. I have tried using the Gentle Leader (halter) and a prong collar. Neither one of them phase him. He still pulls on both and doesn't seem to be bothered much by choking himself on the halter. The prong collar doesn't seem to bother him at all either. We have many issues, but I was hoping if I could give him some exercise, we could wind down some of his energy, helping aid the other problems. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do?

Just as an example, it took me over 30 minutes just to walk him down our street and back to our house. I tried switching direction every time he pulled, which caused him to do the bucking bronco thing and throwing fits. As soon as I would finally get him headed in the other direction, he would be pulling on the leash again. Mind you, I am not very strong in the upper body, so it takes all my strength to keep a hold of him, and I am worn out by the time we get back home.

I also forgot to add that when we get out of the house, his interest in food or treats of any kind if none. He could care less about food even if it's right under his nose.

Posted by squashynose
Feb 12, 2008

Sounds like he doesn't want to walk, he wants to run!! Have you got any dog parks near you where he could have a really good run? Maybe once he's drained some of that energy, he'll be more responsive to training.
Also, when I walk my dog I use a slip lead instead of a normal collar and lead (he still wears a collar and tag!), with it right up at the top of his neck. You have much better control when the lead is there, he can't put his back into pulling! I work at a shelter, and always do this with dogs who pull, and it really does work!

Posted by jlynn9573
Feb 12, 2008

Is a slip lead the same thing as a choke collar? We do not have any dog parks in this area. We don't have anywhere I can let him go and just run. I am positive he'd rather be runnign around anywhere else than on the leash. However, I have to keep him on the leash for safety reasons. Any other suggestions? Thanks for the help!

Posted by Christine-Gibb
Feb 12, 2008

It's great fun (NOT) having a dog who is much stronger than you. I know how frustrating this is. I have a German Shepherd cross and as you food did not interest her out walking, rattling chaings, rattling tins with stones in she just kept on pulling. I used the halti for 12 months, she still pulled but eventually it did get through to her. She hated all 12 months of being on this. I now use a slip collar made from nylon (same as choke collar but not chain) and now when out walking if she starts getting to boisterous or I see trouble brewing with another dog all I need to do is to move this up her neck and hold onto it behind her ears. This removes all pulling and strength. Hope this helps. Good luck

Posted by Blue
Feb 13, 2008

Our dog Blue didn't have a lot of food drive outside either, we tried everything from fancy treats to real meat.
This started changing as I upped her obedience training indoors (sit, stay, heel, sit pretty...anything I could teach her!) and I also refrained from giving her her breakfast or dinner prior to walks - in fact, I would use her breakfast kibble along the walks to train her - then give her the remainder of her breakfast when I got home.
I think the biggest thing for us was training her indoors, it's like all of a sudden something clicked - that our voices meant treats...food...good stuff...and that the fun didn't have to end when she listened to us.
It is important to keep training sessions upbeat - including heeling outdoors.

I wouldn't even try heeling outdoors though, until he can do it successful indoors, then in an enclosed backyard and/or outdoors where there are less distractions.

The bucking bronco stuff is him protesting at being told what to do. When he does this go and stand right next to him, try giving a jerk on the leash with a reprimand (say Aaaaahhh deeply or a growl) and then MAKE him sit. When he is calm and seated, you can try rewarding him with a treat if he'll take it, then proceed with the walk. Do this again and again - eventually he will understand that the walk doesn't continue until YOU say it does.

It will take time, but with stubborn perseverance on your part you can get him to know you're the boss.

I would also suggest reading the bonus book "Tips to becoming Alpha Dog" as this may also teach Amos to listen to your commands more attentively.

As they say here often enough, alpha training is very important. Here are some important points on alpha training-
1) If you come across your dog while he is sleeping or lying on the floor then you can reinforce your position as alpha dog by making him move away from where you want to go, no the other way around.
2) Make sure that you always go through doorways first. Try reinforcing your position as alpha dog is to walk your dog around the house on the leash, making your dog wait while you walk through doorways first.
3) At mealtimes make sure that your dog or dogs eat after all of the humans have.
4) When your dog wants to go outside for a walk, make it sit and wait until you are ready to go
5) Do not feed your dogs tidbits or let it pester you at the table. Save the morsels and tidbits for training sessions instead.
6) Do not greet your dogs straightaway when you arrive home. Make it wait until you are ready and then call it to you.
7) Whenever your dogs want attention or anything wait till they are sitting and being well behaved

I also found in the training of my dog Blue, it helps to disallow the dog access to human "beds", this includes any couches or La-Z-boys too

I hope some of this was helpful! Good luck!

Posted by jlynn9573
Feb 13, 2008

Blue, you also replied to my alpha dog issues, so thank you again for taking time to try to help. I have read, read, and reread the alpha dog manual. I am trying to do all of those things, though some aren't really possible right now (the moving him while he's sleeping bit). I do not feed them while I'm eating. They are made to lie down and be calm during dinner, and they do it well with no protest. He does not respond to treats outside the house AT ALL. So I don't even bother taking them with me anymore. I do realize he is protesting with his bucking, but it doesn't stop. I do stop when he is acting like a fool, let him finish his tantrum and then make him sit. But the next time we take off it is the same thing again and again. I know people say it gets better if you keep at it, but we've been at this for 2 years now, and it hasn't gotten better. I know a big problem is probably taking him for a walk before he is calm. This is a big problem and I haven't figured out how to conquer it yet. They say, make your dog sit and wait before going outside. I am doing good to get him to be still long enough to get his leash on him. As soon as he sees the leash in my hand, he goes into psycho-hyper mode. Whining, running around in circles, running all over the house, jumping on the door, and it's sheer craziness. I am not sure how to modify this behavior. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Like I said on my alpha post, I've been woking on training indoors, however, he seems to not have any motivation to listen. I try treats and praise when he does things correctly, but he doesn't seem very interested in either, even inside. I haven't dared to try it outside as I know it will fail.

I have also removed couch and bed privileges as of about 2 weeks ago. He is allowed on the floor or his dog bed only. I think he's finally getting the hang of that. I am working on establishing alpha role, but it's taking time.

He knows sit and shake, but that is all. We are learning down and stay right now. We tried stand, but he doesn't seem to grasp that concept, and a treat infront of his nose does not entice him to get up off his rump once he's in a sit. Any suggestions on that one?

Thanks again for everyone replying. I don't feel so alone anymore, and that maybe there is hope afterall!

Posted by Blue
Feb 14, 2008

I really think that perseverance with the alpha training will improve your dogs responsiveness to you.
Our dog Blue was very similar a few months after we got her, she ignored us completely, I read lots of dog manuals (all kinds!!) as well as the ones from Kingdom of Pets.
It really wasn't until after a few months of serious alpha training and obedience that she started responding to me - and even to food rewards!
Blue was of course a bit easier than your Amos because she is only 35-40lbs...

To make faster headway with Amos, you may want to seek the help of a hands on professional dog trainer/dog behaviourist - either for at least one, one on one session, or you could try some group classes - but the progress would be slower.

With a dog trainer they can assess both the dogs behaviour, and how you're coping with training the dog and yourself! This way you have someone there to help you and your dog figure out a more symbiotic relationship.

It is very important that you make progress with Amos as aggression can get worse as a dog gets older and more comfortable with it's alpha role plus there's nothing worse then a deaf and blind aggressive dog when it gets really old!

Some problems are better resolved hands on like this - then you can move on to enjoying your time with the dog, rather then feeling constantly frustrated. We'll be taking our dog Blue to a veterinary dog behaviourist (specialized veterinarian) for her separation anxiety just because we're at our wits end with her clinginess to us - and we've tried everything so far except medication!

Posted by doggiemom
Feb 14, 2008

I do "fun" walks with my terrier/sheepdog (guess) mix. She is 37 lbs. and very headstrong. A dog park is not available in my area, and my neighborhood does not have sidewalks, so we all walk our dogs on the street. So...I use a 15' leash and let her roam. She's able to sniff and explore. She's so busy walking from side to side, looking around, sniffing everything, and she gets a lot of exercise in this manner. I control the leash, pulling it to me to shorten it when it's appropriate (cars, other people). In this method, the leash stays loose and there is no pulling. I take her to a nearby park with a walking path on occasion and she is most happy. She feels free, but is not. She is still under my control. As a young dog, she was not easy to walk in a controlled manner, and the walk was not enjoyable to her or me. Now, when it is warranted, I can walk her on a 6' leash in a controlled manner, using a choke collar...but we still mostly enjoy the long loose leash for fun and exercise. A retractable leash would not work for this method because it tends to remain taut and defeats the purpose of a loose leash experience.

I have a large fenced yard and she has lots of room to run, but nothing satisfies her like a walk.

Posted by Steph-ampWyatt
Feb 14, 2008

Hi jlynn9573,
It really does seem like your dog is still very much the alpha of your pack. On the walking issue, With Wyatt, we throw the ball in the yard for a while before we go for our walk, and before training sessions, this seems to help him be a little calmer, he to is VERY headstrong. Since yours is a "hound" maybe try hiding things he can sniff out, if you have the room. It really is true having a dog is like having a 2 or 3 yr old, boy how we do love them or we all wouldn't be here, right?
Good Luck and keep posting
Stephanie & Wyatt

Posted by jlynn9573
Feb 15, 2008

Wow... a loose leash walk sounds really fun, but also really dangerous for me. That gives him a good running start before the leash goes taut, and I have no doubt I would be on the ground hanging on to the leash for dear life. lol Maybe we could work up to that, but I don't see that as an option for us right now. Mind you, he is 65 pounds of pure muscle. We are going to a one-on-one training session, and I hope we'll see wonderful things from that. We went last Friday, and I wasn't impressed. Maybe I'm not sure how these thigns are supposed to go. But basically the trainer took him from me almost immediately and started walking him around and trying to get him under control. She kept saying things like, He is learning to trust me, He's figuring out that I am alpha... which seems all well and good... but I need him to respect ME, and to see ME as alpha. I left the session feeling like I personally had not accomplished anything. Should I try to find another trainer? Or is this normally how training goes?

Steph, I would love to throw balls in the yard. The problem is, he won't go chase them. He won't bring them back. Sometimes he will run after it long enough for it to stop. Then he usually sniffs it and leaves it where it is. or he picks it up and wants me to chase him around. He doesn't do the fetch thing very well. We did have a ball-playing session in the back yard yesterday, and that is the most he's ever interacted with me and the ball. So I do believe there's hope yet. I will keep trying!

Posted by Blue
Feb 15, 2008

It's so funny, your dog sounds like a heavier slightly older version of Blue when we first got her...she wouldn't fetch at all, wouldn't even chase the ball. Same as the issues with bad on leash skills, terrible recall, and crazy over excited behaviour!
Since we've been working so hard with her, I think all the mental stimulation (and distraction from bad behaviour) is finally paying off! She actually, sort of, fetches the ball - although she still loses interest after about 5 throws and returns... she is walking better on a leash (not perfect, yet!) and she doesn't seem to act out as much as she used to - which included spinning in mad circles when asked to do things she didn't want to do!
I'm just trying to keep encouraging you, it's hard to 'restart' a dog when its learned bad behaviour, but it can be done! I swear!
Where did you get the reference for the trainer? I found out about the dog behaviourist through my veterinarian, and he comes with a great deal of good feedback. I've heard a lot of bad things about private trainers - some of them don't even have any form of certification, so make sure you don't waste good training money on a bad trainer. Perhaps Todd or someone here could recommend a trainer in your area, to make sure you get off on the absolutely correct foot?
Amos is lucky to have someone who is working so hard to help him be a good doggy citizen!

Posted by jlynn9573
Feb 15, 2008

Thank you for the positive encouragement. We all need that sometimes. I got the referral from my vet's office, who said they had heard lots of good things about her. If anyone has any suggestions for a trainer in the Waco, Texas area, I'd love to hear them. We initially tried the PetsMart training program, but that was impossible. We definitely need one-on-one.

Posted by Steph-ampWyatt
Feb 15, 2008

hi jlynn9573,
Wyatt's not very good returning the ball either, so what I started doing is using 2 or 3 ball's, I throw one he gets it then I walk toward him and throw another, he drops one then runs after the next one, I pick that ball up and repeat, we end up doing this over and over(I get exercise too) Now he"s learning (sort of) to bring them back , he'll line them up in a row for me to kick, we also "hide them" then have him "find them " I don't have him fetch yet,he wouldn't do it anyway, plus we're still working on other issues, of course I have a large yard in a semi rural area, but that's our playtime and he never seems to tire of it, while I on the other hand....... .
Best wishes and keep posting
Stephanie & Wyatt

Posted by Pippaemma
Feb 16, 2008

Hi there, I hope this is not a really silly question but i have just bought a gentle leader to teach my dog Rozie how to walk properly on a lead. Her walking is SO much better than before with it on but she still pulls slightly and i want to know when she does this do i stop walking or will she eventually just stop pulling in time?

Posted by jlynn9573
Feb 20, 2008

Sorry Pippa... I am the wrong person to be asking. Maybe someone else will have the answer for you. Good luck!

Posted by Blue
Feb 20, 2008

[QUOTE=Pippaemma;830]Hi there, I hope this is not a really silly question but i have just bought a gentle leader to teach my dog Rozie how to walk properly on a lead. Her walking is SO much better than before with it on but she still pulls slightly and i want to know when she does this do i stop walking or will she eventually just stop pulling in time?[/QUOTE]

I would stop walking, turn and walk in another direction. Allowing her to pull may escalate into stronger pulling. Some dogs will start pulling, even with a gentle leader - you need to associate the gentle leader with your alpha role, by choosing the direction you want to walk - and not allowing her to pull you in a direction she wants to go.

Hope this helps,
Blue

Posted by Blue
Feb 20, 2008

[QUOTE=jlynn9573;823]Thank you for the positive encouragement. We all need that sometimes. I got the referral from my vet's office, who said they had heard lots of good things about her. If anyone has any suggestions for a trainer in the Waco, Texas area, I'd love to hear them. We initially tried the PetsMart training program, but that was impossible. We definitely need one-on-one.[/QUOTE]

How are your training sessions going? Are you feeling like you are making more headway?

Please feel free to continue updating with new behaviours/improvements! It is exciting to hear of owner and dog finally coming to work as a team, through trial and tribulations!

Blue

Question about Walking my Dog