Kingdom of Pets

Posted by Kath1968
Aug 26, 2009

Hi there, I have a Rhodesian ridgeback, 18 months old, and a fox terrier, 5 years. A couple of weeks ago whilst they were in kennels, the fox terrier (Pip, male, neutered) appears to have taken a chunk out of Livvie's (female, neutered) leg and she's got hold of him by the scruff of the neck. He has puncture wounds 1/4" from his jugular, so could have been very nasty.

Anyhow, since then, I've separated them in the house whilst I'm out but Livvie has become more destructive. I leave her with a chew and a couple of Kong's stuffed with biscuits and she has other toys to play with but she's chewing anything she can get hold of and today has destroyed the carpet at the bottom of the stairs (there is a stair gate so she can't get up them). I had thought about a cage, but I can't seem to find one that's big enough for her for a few hours and I'd either have to keep them separate or get a cage for the fox terrier too otherwise he'd just goad her.

They are both perfectly fine when we're in the house, even if they're shut in a different room.

Barring giving up work to stay at home and look after them (but that won't pay the mortgage!), has anyone any ideas, please?

Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Aug 26, 2009

Hi Kath1968,

I am so sorry to hear that your 2 dogs are not getting along well. I am afraid I will sound so mean but I would suggest you find another home for one of the dogs. The reason why is-

1) Are you planning to keep them separate for the rest of their life? Or are you hoping they will become best friends all of a sudden? To me it doesn't seem to be very promising.

2) I think your RR got traumitized by the incident. It won't be fair for her to put up with the fear for the rest of her life.

3) Dogs are pack animal so I don't see any point having 2 dogs that are always being separated and in fact the fact that they are separated creates another problem, which is a lack of socialization and frustration build-up.

4) You might think whichever dog you get rid of will miss you and your family and he/she will be sad for a long time. However, through my fostering dog experience, dogs are very resilient and they can be as happy, or maybe happier with a correct environment/best matching family.

I am interested if anyone can give solutions to work on Livvie's behavior correction. It will be the best if it works out, of course.

Good luck

Posted by KOPsarah
Aug 28, 2009

Hi kath and thanks for your post,
I was just wondering how the dogs got on prior to this incident? Have there always been problems or did it start in the kennels? Do you know what happened in the kennels that initiated the problem? Is it possible another dog was involved in the incident? Has livve shown destructive behavior before? Which of the dogs seems to be dominant?

Sorry for all the questions just trying to get a better idea of the situation.

Posted by Kath1968
Aug 28, 2009

Thanks both for your replies. I take your point about getting rid of one of them, and it's certainly crossed my mind, but I would like to see if there's anything I can do first.

OK, so, prior to the incident, they've generally got on OK. The FT is quite feisty and the RR is 30kg of pure muscle. Which one's dominant? Hard to say, really, but probably the FT. The RR will back off when he growls and she can be quite submissive, licking his face, leaving his food alone etc. The incident happened when they were brushing out the kennel. I suspect that the FT has gone for the brush to attack it - he does this at home with brushes and with the vacuum cleaner - and if they've maybe told him off, he sometimes will turn round and snap at the RR or anything else that's in his way. I suspect that this is what's happened and he's sunk his teeth into her leg - she has a wound about 2" long - and she's just retaliated. Can't blame her for defending herself, but as I didn't want to come home to a scene from Die Hard, I've kept them separate whilst we've been out ever since. SHould I put them back together? They are both fine when we're in the house with an occasional grumble but no fighting. I do try and give them both the same amount of attention either together or separately so that they don't get envious of the other one.

The RR has been destructive in the past - 2 pairs of shoes and a cushion in pieces one day when we didn't close a door properly, but this latest thing of ripping the carpet hasn't happened before. She's done it again today, so I've just taken all the carpet off the bottom step but all she'll do now is chew through the wood. The worst of it is, she knows perfectly well she shouldn't be doing it! You can tell the minute you walk through the door that she's been up to something - she's very submissive, slinking around with her belly very close to the floor, doesn't jump up etc, so you just know there's been something. I have tried that pet behaviour spray which was OK the day I sprayed it, but doesn't seem to last very long. I'm loathe to saturate everything in that, because whilst it might prevent her chewing, it's not solving the root cause.

Any suggestions before I call either an animal psychologist or the animal rescue??!

Posted by KOPsarah
Sep 2, 2009

hi again,
From what you have said I would guess that the majority of your ridgebacks destructive behaviors at the moment are based on loneliness. A possible immediate fix for the short term could be to get them both muzzles, the kind where they can still drink and pant, and leave them in the house together muzzled. This should stop the ridgebacks destructive behaviors and let them enjoy each others company while your out without the threat of serious injury. Obviously you will not want this to be a long term situation so we also need to work on the dogs behavior through training. You need to practice regular alpha-dog training with both your dogs but especially the foxy. Your foxy is showing that he doesn't respect humans authority by being aggressive (even if aiming it at other objects or your other dog) when he is told off. If you would like a run down on the basics of alpha dog training let me know, alternatively there are some details in your secrets to dog training manual and there is also a full guide available from the premium members download area.

Along with alpha training use your attention to show your dog that any dominant aggressive behavior towards each other is unacceptable. If one of the dogs shows this sort of behavior put it immediately but calmly into time out in a separate area so that it is getting no attention from you but it knows the other dog still is. Keep time outs short to about 3 minutes as otherwise the dog will lose track of why it is in it in the first place. When it comes out of time out carry on as if nothing happened do not continue to treat the dog as if it is in trouble.

Similarly when the dogs are being nice to each other and getting on well praise them both.

[I]Other things to try[/I]
-try getting a DAP (dog appeasing pheromone) dispenser and using it in the house while you are out. This produces a scent that only dogs can smell and that has a calming effect, alternatively try putting a little herbal rescue remedy or similar in their water to help calm them both down.
-make sure both dogs get plenty of exercise. While foxys are small they are incredibly high energy and it is often especially easy to underestimate the exercise and mental stimulation needs of this breed.
-try giving each dog a safe place to retreat to. You can use the differences in your dogs builds to make places that only one of them can access for example a little bed/box with a small entrance for your foxy and a bed high up out of reach for the ridgeback. Giving each dog personal space to retreat to should help cool tempers.

I hope this helps and please dont hesitate to ask for any clarifications, different options or any other questions you may have.

Posted by Kath1968
Sep 3, 2009

Thanks KOPsarah - I'll give all this a go. We are trying with the alpha stuff, but hubby hasn't read much of it yet so we're not terribly consistent at the moment, but we're getting there! Where would I get the DAP?

Many thanks for your advice - much appreciated. I'll let you know how we get on.

Posted by kjd
Sep 4, 2009

Kath,

You can buy DAP online. It doesn't necessarily work for every dog -- mine seems to get nothing from it.

kjd

Posted by Kath1968
Sep 8, 2009

Managed to get DAP-releasing collars for both dogs at a local pet shop. They went bananas for a couple of hours, but after that they calmed down and so far, so good...

Posted by kjd
Sep 8, 2009

Kathe,

Glad to hear the DAP collars are working!

My brother used to run a boarding kennel. He stopped even offering to let owners board animals together because he found the two "best buddies" at home might become enemies once in the kennel. The owner will never know what actually happened in an accident because he didn't see it, wasn't with the dogs. Although I used to board my dogs together, I suspect it is probably safer to pay extra for time in doggy-day-care for socialization. Some kennels offer this and will give boarders time there if the owners request it. Then I'll let the dogs have individual kennels. Your experience actually confirms my brother's policy. (Of course, one of my dogs would just climb the 10-foot chain-link fence, drop into the outer yard, and play with my brother's dog! Until she got a top on her run.)

kjd

Posted by KOPsarah
Sep 13, 2009

hi again kath,
How are your dogs doing now?

Posted by Kath1968
Aug 8, 2010

Hi,
As you can probably tell from the length of time I've been away from the forum, I haven't had any more problems!! I didn't repeat the DAP collars after the DAP had worn off, but after a week of the collar I left both dogs together with the run of most of the house. I was dreading coming home from work the first day I did this, but they were both soooo pleased with themselves. No destruction of anything, no bloodbath, nothing!
Since then they've got on like a house on fire most of the time. Probably couldn't have achieved this without the DAP collars to calm them down to start with.

Thank you!!!!!

Posted by MaxHollyNoah
Aug 9, 2010

Hi Kath1968,

Thank you for the great news! I am so glad that it worked out.

I am the one who suggested you find a new home for one of your dogs but I am glad that you didn't I am not familiar with DAP collar but it sounds like it worked like a magic!

Separation anxiety?