Small dog beginning to bite visitors

[QUOTE=nevrenufanimals;2359]My Lhasa is 9 yrs old. Although he was well socialized as a puppy (is an AKC confirmation champion) and obedience trained, he can still be aggressive. I was nervous every time a judge touched him. He went through handling classes at 7 mo old, and the instructor said he never knew what he was going to do. He even went through an agility course. He was voted least enthusiastic because he did things when HE wanted to do it. He has always remained very dominant, even after much behavior training and retraining. And yes, he IGNORES discipline. He does NOT like to be picked up, esp by strangers. As far as I know, he's never bit anyone for this. He Hates his crate, always has, and will fuss and attempt to bite you if you physically push him into it. And then he barks, fusses, scratches and tries to get out the whole time. He actually rocked himself out of the car one day onto the ground from inside his crate from pushing and jumping on it. He WILL nail you (bite) if you step on him or his tail. He fusses (grumbles) the whole time he gets a bath. He WILL nail you if you're grooming his feet (or anywhere) and he warns you to stop and you don't. Even us, his owners. Every groomer I know will tell you (and has told me) this is inherent of the breed. And I've not seen any books or information on the breed that says they're happy go lucky, easy going, well behaved, like-everybody dogs! Mine has issues with ankle biting friends as they LEAVE my house, not when they enter. And yes, he draws blood. Even with help from dog trainers, and the final use of an E collar, it is still not resolved. He knows when it's not on him. I now just have to put him away if company comes. He is very smart, and loyal, knows lots of tricks, and I love him, but his behavior is annoying. He is a terror at my windows, constantly lunging and barking at them when he sees anyone outside. Same thing in the car. Sometimes we think he's going to take out the glass. I can't answer the door because he does the same thing. I've tried teaching him to sit and stay, (which he knows very well) but as soon as that doorbell rings or someone knocks, he goes nuts and refuses to mind. I've tried distracting him with treats, but he ignores it. He didn't bait in the show ring either. Bark collars only stop the barking, not the lunging. He is not dog aggressive, doesn't bark at people outside my home, and walks on leash just fine. No pulling, etc. At 3 mo old, my vet told me I would have my hands full with him. My trainer saw him at 4 mo old, and said the same thing. And I have. My husband hates him. I neutered him at age 3 because I didn't want his temper passed on. I don't trust him with anyone. I feel for you. It's not all his fault though. The rest of the family isn't consistent with training, and as I've said, my husband has nothing to do with him. They crossed paths very early on and it's been like that every since (for years). Since the dog doesn't act submissive and wag his tail when he looks at him, he doesn't like him. This little guy could add a whole chapter to the dog training book! I'm here looking for help too...[/QUOTE]

::confused::eek:
WOW!!!
OK, you´ve got a few clear problems here.

The overall point is that this dog is not happy, and obviously you as a family are also not happy. It is easy to believe the experts when the trainers and vets say at such a young age that this dog will be a problem. However, I feel this was unfair to your dog, and possibly everybody has been unwittingly encouraging 'bad' behaviour to re-enforce this prediction.

He does not sound like a hopeless case.
He does not sound like a monster.
He sounds, from your letter, to be misunderstood...and quite bluntly...spoilt rotten.

But this can be dramatically improved if you want to do some hard work.
You have said some very clear areas that he is behaving badly.
When visitors leave....ask him to sit and stay out of the way. If he can´t do this alone, he needs to be held on a line by somebody else.
I´m concerned when you say that you distract him with treats to try to stop him barking or going crazy? Don´t. Treats are for rewarding GOOD behaviour, not for distracting from bad behaviour.

You say he goes nuts when the door bell goes and sit and stay don´t work? Could you try with a friend that they ring the bell, but you don´t answer it until he can be calm? this may take a few attempts, but as soon as he can hear the bell and does not bark or go crazy, give him a treat.

However, all of these methods are like tiny plaster on a big problem.
It concerns me that your husband doesn´t like your dog. And I believe it must be very frustrating living with your dog at the moment. You need to establish some rules around the house. Re-read the Alpha techniques and try to be really consistent. Don´t feed him treats from the table, don´t let him on the furniture, don´t step over him, on him or on his tail:confused:, and ....

don´t let strangers pick him up!

You need to get really really tough for a while to balance what has happened in the past. It is so uneven at the moment with your dog making up ALL the rules, and you need to take back some control of the situation. The sitstayfetch book has lots of good ideas...don´t read from cover to cover. I would start with the Alpha section....and really DO the techniques described. Don´t try to work on all the problems at once.

Like a child learning a new skill, there will be the watching stage from your dog, then the frustration stage...don´t give up now!...then a stage that the dog gets even MORE crazy as he trys to change back the rules of the house to when HE was the boss...and then...if you can stay with it...the stage that you see that he is listening better to you, he is trying to please you, he´s trying to see what makes you pleased with him.

When you have got to this stage, then you will be able to move on to the other problems, and with the repect from your dog, you will be able to quite quickly sort them out one by one.



This does not mean that you do not cuddle and kiss with your dog. Please don´t forget, similar with teenage children, that a firm hand should be balanced with love. The dog must get the feeling from you that you enjoy playing with him and petting him. If your husband can´t tollerate this, then he needs to totally ignore the dog. I have the feeling that your family is proving that they are 'right' about the personality of your dog, and encouraging bad behaviour to do so. You need to ask them seriously to back off, follow the rules, and give the little fella a chance to be a happy dog.
I really hope you can do this.
I believe if you got really serious about turning this dog around, that by christmas you will see massive improvements!

Good luck, please write more ideas and improvements.
I am sure other people would also like to help with their own tipps.

Annie

It would be good if your dog could get some rewards for good behaviour so he can understand the reward system. Maybe try making the 'game' a bit easier for him? Start small, don´t use the door at the moment.You could try telling him to 'go lie down' and taking him to his place and asking him to wait. You say your command, point firmly, and if he goes, immediately reward. ( not too much, just a small treat and you go away and sit down again) If he is unable to obey, attach a very short leash ( and leave it on for training) and firmly lead him to his place, when he arrives and can sit give a treat.

You need to keep repeating this often. And, from the sounds of your dog he will not be so happy with this

Now he understands the idea of going, waiting, reward, you can start with visitors. Back at the begining again. You may have to ( on your way to opening the door) have to guide him back to his place many many times. And even after opening the door....don´t forget that he needs to be returned everytime he leaves his place.....over and over, firmly, no fuss, say your command, lead back, sit, stay, give treat. ( give treat as soon as he is in position and sitting, you need to ask him to stay and then walk away confident that he will stay ) For this to work you need to be 100% consistent!

It is quite obvious that you do not have much time for your visitor through all this...get a friend to help out for a few visits.
IMPORTANT. The guest should NOT help you in any way, they should totally ignore your dog, not say hello, no eye contact. Your guest is here for you not the dog and the dog must wait his turn. It is possible that your previous guests made life quite exciting for your dog and these are some of the reasons he gets so excited. I also think your breed is a bit of a guard dog so you need to make really clear that YOU are the leader and do not need 'guarding' from your own visitors....

With going crazy at the window it is a similar idea...over and over consistent reactions. When he starts crazy you need to get his attention for even a second. I clap my hands together, other people use water pistols, stones in an empty can, or a small piece of light chain. He barks, toss the chain on the floor nearby, he reacts, you compliment and treat QUICKLY! and use a command like 'quiet' . I´m sure he´ll go back to barking and lunging. Make noise, say 'quiet' he looks and instantly give treat or compliments.
If you have already mastered the 'go lie down' and he understands this, then ask him to leave the window and lie down on his place. Again, you may need a short leash on.


However, these ideas are not going to be very successful if your dog does not respect you. It will really help if you could do some basic revision of commands sit stay etc, and also to play some ' find the treat in the house' game' or something that is fun for you both. You ask him to sit and wait, you go and hide a treat ( start easy) and then ask him to find it. Dogs love to use their noses and it can really tire them out to concentrate.
A tierd dog is a happy dog. I know these breeds don´t need much outdoor exercise, but they are also smart and need to think. You could try teaching a few small tricks to your dog, shake hands, hunt the treat, find the ball etc etc. Making his life more challenging may make him happier.

Training both dogs together in the house is OK, but concerning the biting problem of your other dog, I would socialise and walk them alone. You need to really concentrate on their specific propblems.
let me know how you get on,
Annie

thanks for the tips. Actually, they both already know the reward system and trained to sit, stay, down, etc. The lhasa is very smart and learns things very quickly. He can maintain a sit or down for about 10-15 min with me OUT of the room. He also know lots of tricks. He can shake hands, beg, dance, roll over, and play dead when shot, and will hold until I let him up. The papillon already knows beg and roll over, and is working on play dead currently. (and a good solid "here"-which is at about a 60% recall when outside) Yes, the lhasa breed is used as a watchdog in Tibet, and he takes his job Very seriously, and does it well! He actually backed a police officer out of my house once years ago. All 20 lbs of him.

He will follow commands just fine, until he sees or hears someone walk in front of the house, down the street, drive up in the driveway, or come to the door. Then he just loses all control. And ignores all commands. We have tried clickers, trainers that just make "buzzing" noises, bark collars, E-collars, "zones" collars, he knows if they're on him. He ignores them unless he is shocked with a very high stimulus, which is unsettling for me too. But it is the ONLY thing that gets his attention for even a second. I am convinced it is a territory thing.
Once outside of my home, he is fine with other people and dogs. You don't see the same behavior. No barking, lunging, growling, nothing. He doesn't run off if off lead. He pretty much ignores other people and dogs, and will allow people to pet him, etc. (I wish I could say the same about the papillon, he LOVES to bark and lunge at other dogs and instigate trouble).
So you can imagine how crazy it gets when they both start going nuts at someone walking past the house. The lhasa starts, the papillon joins in, and they're both running from window to window, with the lhasa literally "hitting" the window with his paws. He takes a running leap and propels himself at it. The papillon, also being very intelligient, will be quiet once commanded and usually come sit with me. But the other one just continues, sometimes up to 30 min AFTER they've gone! He continues to look and watch and make sure they're not anywhere around the house.

Would it be a good idea when training to stay in that position during visitors, to actually leash them to the spot? (trying to catch them once they've actually seen someone is almost impossible, esp the lhasa. ) He knows you're after him and runs around the tables, etc. Because it's difficult to try and maintain control of BOTH of them when they're running all over going nuts. (hahahaactually, no ones IS maintaining control of them at that point!!) I should rephrase that --try and GET control of them.

I have been trying already with the technique you mentioned of putting them in that spot and rewarding them. I place them, tell them stay, and then have my kids ring the doorbell or knock. Hold them, tell them stay again and reward if they do. And do this over and over every day. Of course they went crazy the first time. the papillon now will run to see first, and then come back, or just run straight to the spot for his treat. the lhasa just continues his crazy behavior, ignoring me and treats, etc. that's why I ask about "leashing" them to the spot.

thanks again for any ideas!

No, I'll have to try the short leash. Actually, I got to try the distraction while someone was outside today. The natural gas man came to fill the tank, and was here a while. At the first bark and lunge at the window, I told the lhasa no, and said "quiet" as soon as he turned around to look at me, I had a nice piece of hot dog ready! He immediately came over and got it, waited for more. He broke off a few times, going back to look outside. Only if he growled or barked did I call him back (I don't mind him looking) and say "quiet". Eventually, I had them both lie down in the kitchen in a "spot" and stay there, constantly giving treats when they did. They stayed there quietly the whole time that guy was here! About 20 min!

Now we keep practicing!! I'm sure it will be much tougher when someone is at the back door!

Well, I took the papillon out today for a little socialization. We went to HOme Depot and Petsmart, on leash, in the basket. Overall, he did great. Interestingly, I found that the only times he growled at anyone, was at 2 children, each individually. They both came up to the basket at different times unannounced and unexpected, and he warned them both off. Of course, I ddn't allow them near him, and scolded him also with a quick no. One child was able to give him treats which he readily accepted without problems. Many adults were able to approach him, pet him, or give him treats without any growling or nervous behavior. The only people he has ever bitten at my house was a child a while back (which he was jumping at the time so we weren't sure) and the one kid last week, which was a definite bite on the hand. Lets us know he can't be trusted around children for sure. (I have two older kids, 13 and 15).