This dog is an aggressive mess, but I want to save him.

Hi MaxHollyNoah:

Thank you for the response and the encouragement - I appreciate both!

Petey was affectionate and went through the sit-stay-come commands well this morning. I read your response after he'd been up for about 1/2 hour - and since your plan seemed very common-sense to me, I started by hand feeding Petey the first half of his breakfast. He was sitting in his box, where he usually gets stressed if someone reaches in, so I just kept my open hand with the food in it on top of the blanket barely under his nose. He looked a little confused at first (he's generally pretty "take it or leave it" towards food), then he munched his way through the first few pieces without any problems, so I praised him, took up more food, and repeated until he pulled back a bit with the ears going down, but no growling or any other signs of aggression. At that point, he'd eaten about 1/2 the food, so I just put the rest on the floor outside the box, he came out in a few minutes and finished it up.

I'll keep at it and see how it works. I have been keeping his environment as tranquil as possible, throwng his tennis ball when he asks for it but not getting him too excited and trying to let him get used to being in the house with just me and the cats rather than with me, the cats, the other dog and my boyfriend. He's calmer than he was when I took him a couple of weeks ago, so your advice on that seems right on.

A question on the leashing, though - rather than a harness, I was thinking of just attaching an extra ring to the back of his collar, he stresses when I reach around his neck to attach the leash to the ring underneath but if I can get it on him quickly enough he's usually ok. He's fine with the leash just being left around (he'll gnaw on it if I leave it on his big pillow), but when he sees it in a person's hand he growls about 1/2 the time and sometimes freaks out completely. I'm not sure I can harness him, he doesn't like me to reach under his front legs sometimes. Do you think having the ring on the back of the collar would cause problems if he pulls on the walk because the other ring with the tags would be under his chin?

Thanks again for the help!

Hi Caroline and MNH:

Thank you both for your responses - I can't say enough how much I appreciate you! You're showing a lot of care and interest in my little "psycho puppy".

Yesterday Petey was really great - came out of his box with no problem (I put a couple of treats a little way in front of it to encourage him before I opened it), obeyed his commands and asked for lots of affection and a walk. I was gone most of the day, and my boyfriend came over late in the day - I kept them separated and had him drop treats over the barrier to Petey, giving Petey his "sit" and "ok" commands. Since my boyfriend was wearing long heavy pants and heavy shoes, I eventually removed the barrier (at his suggestion), and Petey trotted right over and rubbed against his leg - I was very surprised (and relieved). My boyfriend and I practiced our swing dancing, and Petey tried to dance with us, hopping on his hind legs a little way away (but not jumping on us) like he used to do when he wanted to play - I haven't seen that in almost two years. No incidents, and my boyfriend did not reach for him or scratch him. When Petey asked my boyfriend for affection, I called Petey to me to get it - no risking fingers. Petey even obeyed a "drop it" command when he grabbed a cat toy (that he knows he's not supposed to take) and accepted a tennis ball after some encouragement - that's a first, it's usually a struggle to get those toys away from him. MNH, I think that's what you meant by giving up a resource, correct? He put himself to bed and was fine when I closed up his box for the night - go Petey!!

This morning, though, he growled and barked when I came over to let him out of his box, but I noticed that he backed up in his box rather than lunging toward me while he was making his noise. I spoke gently to him and backed off a bit, then once he stopped I ignored him for about 10 minutes. Then I took the box outside, let him watch me working quietly for a few minutes and let him out. He came out easily, and came over for a scratch. He was great the rest of the morning. I believe the hand feeding that you both suggested is helping a great deal, he's beginning to trust me more.

So, since there was no rawhide chew in his box to be possessive of, the only thing I can think of is that something frightened him when I came over, especially since he backed up. Would it make a difference that I came over to him sooner than usual after I came home from the gym? I was running late, so I was only home about 5 minutes before I tried to let him out rather than the usual 15 or so. Would walking over tomorrow with treats to place on the floor be considered "bribery" and bad for his training or an encouragement to come out, making it a positive thing? He's doing so well right now I don't want to make any mistakes out of ignorance - he's had more than enough of that!

I can't expect him to keep progressing at this rate, and I'm sure we'll have progressive and regressive days, but since I started with the Alpha commands and your suggestions, he's obviously getting more comfortable and happier - he's not gnawing on his toys (or feet) as much and leans so hard into his scratches that he almost falls over - what a change!! This program and you two are lifesavers, literally.

Hi MHN:

Thanks for continuing to share insights and advice.

To answer your question first, Petey is getting better about being leashed. The last two days I was able to give him a treat, leash him (still on the ring on the back of his collar) and pay out the leash with no growling. He does stiffen and lay his ears back, so I know he's still fearful, so I talk nicely to him, and call him to me with treats. Once I get him moving, he's ok, but last night he stopped, shaking a bit and stiff with ears down, partway through the walk. Again, I just spoke nicely, gave him scratches until he sat down, then encouraged him to come with me and continue the walk.

Speaking of shaking, one trainer told my boyfriend that it's a sign that the dog is "processing new information" and that it's a good thing. Is that true? I think it's indicative of fear, and all those times Petey was shaking when my boyfriend was holding him down to establish dominance meant he was terrified not learning.

On the play/toys, when Petey comes to me with a ball to throw, I usually throw it immediately for him (since he has to trust me to bring it to me, I think I should encourage it), but if I have my hands full I tell him "good boy, just a minute" and finish what I'm doing before I play with him. Is that what you do with your dogs when you make them wait for you to play? I don't want to ignore him to make him think he's done something wrong.

Last night Petey flat out refused to go into his crate, growling and backing away several times - even my trick of picking it up and moving it (that usually makes him want to jump right in) didn't work. I left him blocked into the kitchen as I do when I'm gone during the day. This morning, of course, we had no problems with opening the crate, since he wasn't in it! Should I have tried harder to force him to obey the command, or was it better to let him have his way? I took the comforter out to wash it this morning, thinking the problem might have been that it smelled bad to him last night (that has happened in the past).

On the progress front, twice in the last few days I've told him to come in in situations where he might have balked (past the cats on the stairs and after a barkfest when he saw another dog on a walk) and he came right away - progress!! I don't think he'd be doing as well without your help. You mentioned that you do rescue work, as a more tangible form of thanks, can you direct me to information to make a donation?

Thanks again!! Cynthia

We have three bichons. One we have had since he was 5 months old. He is now 4 1/2. He is a great dog, but he barks at everything that goes by. He's not our problem, though. The other two, both 5 1/2, are rescue dogs. Oscar is from the local shelter. Shei is from Small Paws Rescue, a bichon rescue organization. We have had them both since January. Shei doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He is a total lover. His problem is territory marking. He lifts his leg on everything, then scratches his feet afterward. He is ruining the lawn with the scratching. In the winter, he wears a belly band to keep him from ruining my house. But he's not the real problem. Oscar is a sweetheart, but he has been in 4 homes in the last 3 years. His problem is aggression. It was described as being protective when we got him. We were told he tended to be protective of the women in the family, sometimes going after the males when they got too close to the women. So, we took things very slowly with him, letting my husband be the first one to pet him every day, to greet him, etc. He fell in love with my husband. The only time we saw his aggression was when someone reached into his crate, or invaded his space. But he was never aggressive toward my husband or me. My husband spent hours laying on the floor by his crate, into which he would retreat when he was frightened or uncomfortable, with a treat or kibble in his hand, talking softly to Oscar, until he came out to take the treat or kibble. Over a few weeks, he began to trust us and everything was going really well. Riley, our original dog, is the alpha dog. He eats first while the other dogs wait for some invisible signal that says it's their turn. I liken Riley to Goldilocks because he eats out of all three dog bowls before he settles on the one he wants to claim as his. Eventually, the other dogs go eat, although Oscar is always the most reluctant, always watching to see what Riley is doing. Riley doesn't growl at them unless they get close to his dish, but he has definitely gotten the point across to the other two that he's the boss. Oscar loves to play with Riley. He chases him around the yard, and vice versa. All three are great pals, except at night. Riley has always slept with us. After Oscar became comfortable in our home, he started running in at bedtime and jumping on the bed, excited for us to come join him. My husband would get into bed, and Oscar would come over and lay on him, waiting to get his nightly massage. Riley would jump onto the bed, usually go to my pillow and crawl under it making playful barking and growling sounds while he tunneled under my pillow and rolled around on my side of the bed. Then Shei would do the same thing. They would both go to the bottom of the bed, I'd get in bed, and we'd all go to sleep. If Oscar got too close to Riley, he'd growl at him, and Oscar would move away. Oscar is always very aware of where Riley is when he gets into bed, and avoids disturbing him. Shei is Mr. Mellow. He never growls at anyone and couldn't care less who sleeps next to him. Lately, Oscar has taken to growling at Shei when Shei moves, even if he just rolls over. If Shei comes near him, he growls more. I usually say "Oscar, NO!" in a firm voice and he stops. On a few occasions, when my husband has gotten up to use the bathroom, upon returning to bed, Oscar starts growling, as if he doesn't know who my husband is. I sometimes wonder if he doesn't see very well at night since most of the problems seem to take place at night. Usually, I can grab a hold of Oscar and hold him and call his name and snap him out of it. It's as if he has a schizophrenic moment, not knowing where he is or who we are. When he comes back to reality, he's fine, sometimes acting like he's embarrassed and is very affectionate, as if to say he's sorry. But for the past few nights he has had these episodes for now apparent reason, out of the clear blue. One night, I was putting the other dogs on the bed, and he suddenly he started growling at me as if he was going to eat me alive (he never actually bites, he just sounds and acts like he is going to). I kept saying his name, trying to snap him out of it, but he was not stopping. He acted like I was a complete stranger. Finally, he stopped, I crawled into bed, and he came and snuggled with me, but I was freaked out. Last night, he was getting his nightly massage from my husband, and all of a sudden, started growling at him. My husband jumped out of bed, scared he was going to be bitten. I grabbed Oscar and put him down off the bed. I retrieved his crate from outside, (he had stopped using it completely) brought it in next to the bed, and told him to go into it. He went into it and slept most of the night in it. About 2AM he started whining to get on the bed, like he does when he's gotten down off the bed when he gets too hot. I told him no and told him to go to bed in his crate, which he did. Last night was the third night almost in a row that he has gone after my husband for no apparent reason. Now, the one thing that may have triggered last night's episode is that I accidentally stepped on his foot right before bed (he had gotten underfoot). I gave him love and put him on the bed, but he did seem kind of wary, as if he thought maybe he was in trouble. We NEVER discipline our dogs physically at all, but I think Oscar has been hit in the past. Then I put Riley and Shei on the bed, and Shei may have tried to worm his way in to get a massage, triggering Oscar's episode. But my husband was very upset. We have tried so hard to "love the meanness" out of Oscar, and I think my husband was crushed after last night. He said we needed to find Oscar another home - one where he is the only dog and maybe with a single person as his owner. I cried and cried all night, and again this morning. We had decided that we would be Oscar's last home and never wanted him to return to the shelter ever. I was heartbroken. Later this morning, my husband called, in tears, saying maybe we needed the help of a dog trainer to figure out what we should be doing differently, and that he wasn't ready to give up on Oscar yet. He knew we would always wonder and worry about him if he gave him up. So, we're keeping him, but we need help, hence the purchase of Secrets to Dog Training, and this forum. Reading about your aggressive dog and how hard you're working to help him makes me feel so much better. I have never known anyone else who has had a dog be aggressive toward them, not just visitors, so didn't know if there was anything we could do. I now have hope and don't feel so alone. I am going to keep following your saga, and the sage advice of the responders. Maybe you guys have suggestions for me, too. For the record, we're going to keep having Oscar go into his crate to sleep since the bed does seem to be the source of the problems most of the time. We should train the other two to also sleep in a crate, but that's another issue. For now, the problem is figuring out what is triggering Oscar's episodes, what he is afraid of, because I do think he gets aggressive out of fearfulness, and trying to help him overcome that fearfulness.

First, let me apologize for the lack of paragraphs. Not having ever posted in this forum before, I wasn't really sure how it would format until after I posted. Once I did, I realized what a nightmare it would be to read.

1) Yes, Riley is the boss. His barking at "everything that goes by" does get annoying, but we are working on curbing that behavior using desensitization methods (distracting him, having people go by on purpose over and over while we give him treats, etc.) He is improving slowly.

2) Shei does territory mark, but we are working on that, too. The moment he begins to lift his leg, we say "No!" and then direct him to go outside. When we are not home to supervise him, he wears a belly band - a wrap around his middle with an incontinence pad in it to absorb any urine if he does mark. Now that he's been in our home for over six months, most of the time the pad is dry when we get home.

3) Actually, Oscar's aggression is usually directed at my husband, but has nothing to do with ME. He has been aggressive toward my husband when I'm not even in the room. It seems he reacts out of fear, but we're not always sure what scared him.

We both work days. We leave the house at 8:30 AM. I get home about 6PM. My husband doesn't get home until 7:30 or 8PM in the summer, later in the winter. One of us usually goes home midday to check on the dogs. They have a doggy door and a huge fenced yard. We find that they generally sleep most of the day, even when we're home on the weekends. We usually play with them for a while when we get home in the evening, I feed them, and my husband and I eat when he gets home. The dogs settle down in the living room with us - Shei usually sitting on the sofa next to my husband, Oscar on the hearth, and Riley on the back of the other sofa overseeing everything. They are very well-behaved boys, and always have to work for their treats (sit, lay down, do SOMETHING, to get a treat).

They know when it should be bedtime, and usually Oscar will go into the bedroom and get on the bed first, waiting for us. If we stay up later than usual, he waits patiently for us in the bedroom. When my husband says, "it's time for bed", the other two usually run into the bedroom and jump onto the bed. Everyone gets settled in, and we all go to sleep. MOST nights, this is how it goes, and everything is fine. But on occasion, something happens to frighten or startle Oscar, and we have an "episode".

We had actually gone for several weeks with no episodes, and were feeling very confident about having made great strides with him, until last week, when he had three in a row. In hindsight, with the exception of the night he got aggressive with me, we could pinpoint a trigger - something that had happened just prior to his aggressive outburst that had caused him to be fearful. The night he stood on the bed growling at me is still a mystery. That was the first time he has ever been aggressive toward me, but he WAS on the bed, my husband was IN bed, and I think I was putting Shei on the bed (I don't remember exactly).

We don't baby our dogs, at least not in the sense that they are not expected to perform and behave properly. Yes, we love them, just as everyone here does. We do give them affection and attention, but only when we're not otherwise occupied. We knew getting the two rescue dogs would have its challenges.

That wasn't planned, by the way. We were looking for a buddy for Riley, had heard there was a bichon at the shelter, went to see him, but found out he'd been adopted. So, we applied for a dog through Small Paws Rescue, and while we were waiting for that process to be completed, found out the dog had been returned to the shelter. We went out to "meet" him, introduced him to Riley, and decided to foster him.

In the meantime, our application for Shei was approved. He lived in Virginia, and it was January and brutally cold, so he couldn't be flown to use for a month. One of my coworkers was going to adopt Oscar once we got Shei, but we found out she was gone for over 12 hours a day, didn't have a fenced yard, had a geriatric Sharpei, and we knew it would not be a good situation for Oscar, so we decided to keep him rather than see him return to the shelter for a fifth time in three years. We are prepared to work with him to help him overcome his fearfulness and aggression. Also, Oscar was found as a stray at about 2 years old. He was skinny, yellow and severely matted. He was adopted out to a young college student. She had him for about 18 months before she went off to Korea as a missionary. Her parents took him to the shelter after he was aggressive with her father. Her comments were that her father never tried to develop a relationship with Oscar. I think in his first two years he must have been abused by males.

Shei's history is that he was kept in a basement with another male bichon who was dominant over him. Neither was neutered (we think they were being used as studs). His owners turned him in to Small Paws at age 4 1/2. I don't think he was ever actually housebroken, so our work with him has been to train him to go ONLY outside. He has made great strides.

All three dogs are very smart and pick up training very quickly. They have all three learned to walk properly on leashes without pulling. They all know the basic sit, stay, down commands, although keeping them from getting excited when company comes is a challenge we've yet to overcome. We're working on it.

I agree that it's not good to let dogs have everything they want. My husband tends to be the one who spoils the dogs. I am much more consistent in my dealings with them - using the same, consistent commands, expecting them to behave in certain ways before they get treats/petting/attention. My husband is a bit of a pushover at times, and at other times, a bit inscrutable. I think I need to train HIM more than the dogs sometimes.

Mostly, I came here to see what people suggest to deal with dogs who are aggressive toward family members, and to find out how common or uncommon this problem is. I was so relieved when I saw that it is not as uncommon as I thought, and that others are dealing with the same, if not worse, problems. I appreciate any suggestions, support, etc.

Thanks!

First, hi ginaemory:

It sounds like you have a handful, but I'm glad reading Petey's "saga" (it really does seem like one!) has helped you to decide that you want to keep on with your three - keep working with them! I'm sure that the information you will get here will be helpful. You're right, there are a lot of us dealing with aggression issues for one reason or another... If I may make a suggestion, you might want to move your question to a new thread, as someone coming to this one for the first time might not see yours. Since you have multiple dogs, with a different situation, your questions may be extremely helpful for someone with a similar situation and I wouldn't want them to miss out!

On the Petey front, he's been pretty good the last few days, only growled once when leashing him and obeying his commands well. He was really happy to see Spencer (the dog that's still with my boyfriend) today, he growled a bit when he saw my boyfriend, then settled down when we ignored him for a few minutes, after that my boyfriend was able to give him his commands and drop treats to him for good performance (I'm still not allowing reaching or getting too close yet). The good news is that Petey now lets me scratch him all over when he's standing, and I was able to handle his paws the way I used to. He's rolled on his side a couple of times while I'm scratching him, but I'm not ready to try for the lying-down belly scratches yet - that got growling and lunging not so long ago and I don't want to set his progress back.

On to the crate issue - Yesterday he was so buried in his comforter that he didn't notice when I came over to open his crate. This morning, he was awake and watching me, and started to rumble a bit when I came close, bent over and spoke to him. I grabbed a pillow, my coffee and book, and sat on the pillow outside the box, reading and sipping, then scooted a little closer after about 5 minutes, then leaned on my hand towards the crate, and eventually unlatched the crate, then got up. All that time I did not speak to Petey or make eye contact, and he didn't seem to notice when I unlatched the crate. This took about 20 minutes altogether. After I got up, I pulled the crate door open from the top of the door so he couldn't see my hand, and walked away. He came out after about 30 seconds with no issues. Could the problem have been that I speak to him and look at him when I open the crate? A couple of times before I tried to just walk up and open it and he went through a barking/growling fit, so I'm not sure that's it. Also, he had a chew/flavored treat in the crate with him this morning, but that didn't seem to matter (if you recall, we'd surmised the chicken treat was the problem before). Any thoughts on what the difference was this time? I really need to get him used to my opening the crate in the morning without issues.:rolleyes:

Something else I've noticed the last couple of days that may or may not have any bearing on this - Petey has terrier-type ears, they flop over part way up. When he has them up for whatever reason, they look like the tall, pointy, chihuahua ears. The last two days, when he's on his pillow or outside with me, I've noticed they're up a good deal more than usual. Is this good or bad? I have no idea what they are indicating, since I've never seen him have them up for more than a minute at a time before. Now when I'm in the kitchen and he's on his pillow, they're up for quite a while at a time - 10 minutes or so. While we were in the yard yesterday and I was gardening, he was on the grass watching me with his ears up. This morning when I came into the kitchen while he was on his pillow, he was watching me with his ears up. Any ideas on what they might mean?

Thanks!!!

Cynthia

Hi MHN:

Sorry to take so long to respond - Petey's been sick the last few days with an upset stomach, so spare time has been very limited. He's better as of today, though, but of course there's been no training or work with him while he's been sick. Fortunately he was very little trouble when I took him to the vet. Of course he's been really cranky the last two days, since he hasn't been feeling well.

You're right, I don't have 20 minutes each morning! Saturday was when I had the time to try edging over to his crate so sneakily. Any time I come up to his closed crate he growls and sometimes barks, especially if I make eye contact, but he's fine when it's open. I'm guessing it's from when the trainer would come up, it always meant something bad happening (getting harnessed to the pit bull or made to come out immediately via the leash). Thus far the only way to open his cage without issues is to just cover the front with a towel as if I were putting him in time-out, open the latch and then remove the towel. It doesn't seem to matter how quickly I do that, as long as he doesn't see me right in front of the crate, especially reaching for the latch, he's fine.

He's not comfortable with lots of eye contact, whether he's in his crate or on his pillow, eye contact of more than a few seconds makes him start growling. I'm working on increasing the time by talking nicely and looking away when he starts to get restless before he growls - I don't always catch the signals in time, but it seems to be getting a little better. Carolyn had mentioned that she doesn't agree with baby-talk, and neither do I. I'll say something like "How's Petey-boy? Good boy" rather than something that would take a lot of w's to type out. Will there be a point when I'll be giving in to dominance rather than dealing with a fear response by looking away? By the time I can reach for him at any time without him being uncomfortable, would any growling reaction after that when I look at him be edging into dominance?

I'll try to get photos of him with his ears up and down, those I've gotten so far are blurry or too far away to really see the ears.

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions, Petey really is getting better (no explosions this weekend, only a little growling at my boyfriend and Petey even came over and sniffed at his hand while my boyfriend sat quietly with no aggressiveness showing at all), and I'm very grateful for all the help - I wouldn't be doing this well without you and Caroline!

Cynthia

Hi MHN:

Petey's doing better, thanks for the concern. Stomach-soothing meds and having him fast for a couple of days (water only in small amounts) as well as a hydration session with the vet, and now he's back to eating small amounts and keeping it down. The good news for his illness is that he seems to see me as less threatening now - I sat on his pillow with him this morning and he voluntarily got up, came over and rested his forepaws and head on my knee. Awwwwww... of course he got lots of scratches and vocal approval for that! I should be able to start treats again by the end of the weekend.

On the eye contact - if I look at him while he's in his crate with the door latched, he stares back and starts to growl as I come close, escalating to barking as I get within arm's reach - or if I approach too quickly he just starts barking and growling immediately. If I stop approaching and talk to him he continues to growl. If he's on his pillow with his back against the wall, he stares back and sometimes growls. He does not turn his head or blink, just stares. If he's on his pillow but NOT against the wall he doesn't usually growl. If he starts to growl at me in any other situation, I can almost always distract him with his name and a command, which is a far cry from a few weeks ago when growling meant almost-immediate attack!

I've tried distracting him with commands (I usually use "sit", he's best at following that one - if he's already sitting he does this little hitch with his rump like he's trying to sit again without getting up that cracks me up) and sometimes that will stop the growling, sometimes not. I can't toss the treats into his crate, every time I try they bounce off the door grating - if I get close enough to try to push them through the opening he's already going nuts, and I don't want to reward that behavior. :eek:

I like the treat between the eyes idea, that one's completely new. I'll give that a shot for when he's growling on the pillow, with no grating to get in the way. I use the Authority training treats, I cut them into 8 bits and currently go through 3-4 treats (24-32 bits) per day during 2-3 command sessions and walks.

I'm thinking I may try opening the crate in a different way - rather than trying to get him used to me coming up right now, I think I'll try throwing the towel over the door, unlatching it, removing the towel, calling him to me and giving him a treat as he comes out (right now I back away once I've unlatched it and remove the towel after he comes out). Over time I'll move the towel to the side (on the side away from the latch) when I put it over so he can see past it as I unlatch the crate to show him that it's me there opening it. Do you think that may work since seeing me coming up to the door, no matter how slowly, seems to still upset him a lot? BTW, when he's in the travel crate, where the latches are at the top, he is perfectly calm when I unlatch it - perhaps because he can't see my hands (I don't appear to be reaching for him), or perhaps because that crate did not go with him to that "trainer", so he doesn't expect anything bad to happen when it's opened.

Thanks again for your advice and time - Petey appreciates it too!!

Welcome back, Caroline, I hope you had a great time camping, and thanks for joining in, Bkpierce!

Petey was doing beautifully until Saturday - I was sitting on his pillow with him during a rain storm, I got up to check on a noise, sat back down and he attacked when I reached to scratch him (I should know better than to reach for him when my hand comes at him from any way but from the front and under the chin). Chewed up a couple of fingers on my left hand, stopped after a couple of "Petey no!" commands and did not pursue when I backed away (which is still better than he used to be). I ignored him for a couple of hours after that and he was unsettled for the rest of the day, growling when I got near him and not wanting to eat much dinner.

Sunday he was pretty good with me, asked for a walk, so I leashed him with no trouble at all. He was good with my boyfriend, walking up to him without growling and taking treats dropped from about a foot away - progress on that. He howled after my boyfriend left - that was sad.

Monday Petey was really happy when I got home from work, so after his dinner, I tried to leash him for a walk - disaster. :eek: I mistakenly let him see the leash and he went into full attack mode, he got the hand that was giving him the treat (I do that to get him to bend his head down to attach the leash to the D-ring) and then kept after me as I backed up telling him "Petey, no!". It took about 8 commands to get him to back off and I blocked him into the kitchen for the rest of the evening. I ignored him (except for hand feeding him this morning) for 24 hours. He's been very nice and asking for affection tonight, I hand fed him dinner and scratched him a few times, put him through his commands, which he obeyed well, and threw his ball for him a few times. I'm a little hesitant about scratching him right now, since I don't want to do anything to make him come at me again. He was soooo good the last couple of weeks, even when he was sick, so it's disappointing to be back to this again. Time to slow things down (obviously) and go back a couple of weeks.

The good news is that if I put the towel over his box I can let open the latch him out immediately, and he's fine when I pull the towel away even standing right at the front. That's better than growling every time I walk up.

I'll have to try the slip leash idea that you've outlined, Bkpierce - we were able to get one of those on him at the vet when he was sick, perhaps that will work better than trying to hook something to his collar. I'm not sure I'm ready to try giving him treats through the loop anytime soon, since that last attack, but over time it should work. Thanks for the suggestion!!

Any ideas on whether or not it will be easier or harder for him to go back to trusting me? He still eats his food from my hand with no trouble and goes through his sit, stay and come commands well.

Thanks for all your help!!

Cynthia

Hi MHN and Caroline:

Sorry, MHN, I didn't mean to worry you - just crazy busy and it was hard to type with my fingers chewed up there for a while. I finally have full function again, but still some numbness, but that should wear off in time. Petey has strong jaws for a little guy!:eek:

Thanks for the summary, MHN - I really hadn't laid it all out like that, it seems like a lot of change in a couple of months. Right now the only issue I have with Petey is still leashing him up, so I've kind of gone sideways on that - it's not really the leash that bothers him so much as the attaching to the collar. You suggested getting him a brand new leash (thank you sooo much for the detailed suggestion!), but I've already done so three times (a retractable, a small one I can hide in my hand that hooks to the collar and the slip leash) - what really sets him off is the hooking to/unhooking from the collar.

Right now he's ok with the slip leash sometimes, sometimes not, so the sideways step is to toss it on him while I'm giving him a treat and just letting it slide over his back to the floor when he sits (I don't hold on to it). Tonight for the first time he nosed at it on the floor after it slid off. Next time I'll incorporate your idea of putting treats around it. I figured that after he stopped growling when he felt it on his back, I'd hang on to it while we went through that routine so he could get used to seeing it in my hand while on him, something that sometimes sets him off. Keep doing that until he doesn't react, then move to the next step of tightening it to stay loosely around his neck and then remove it (which may set him off). Keep at it until I can REACH to remove it (his huge trigger), and once we've gotten there I can think about hooking something to his collar. I'm sure that all sounds intensive, but I'm also hoping it will save me some chewed up hands!

The really good news is that I just came back from a weekend trip, and while he seemed a bit wary of me last night when I first came home, today he was really happy, chasing balls morning and evening in the yard and coming over repeatedly for scratches with not a growl to be heard.

Both of your advice seems to have been spot-on with him, and I've recommended this forum to several people l lately that I've met who mentioned having problems with their dogs. Keep your fingers crossed that I can get through the leashing without any more damage!

I'll update on progress soon. A million thanks from Petey and me!!

Cynthai

Hi MHN and Caroline:

I hope you're doing well and had a good weekend.

Petey's doing about the same, overall, as my last post, he asked for a walk on Saturday and was fine with me leashing him at that time, although the day before he growled when I dropped a large loop of the slip leash over his head and held on to the end. He's still not comfortable with that, but it will just take time, I'm sure. He's fine with me tossing it over his head and taking treats from it on the floor, nosing it to make sure he hasn't missed a morsel. Overall he's been very affectionate, asking for scratches multiple times a day and sitting on the floor near me a couple of times a day. I can now reach partway into his box when he's in it with a treat, where a month ago he growled if I crouched down in front of the crate when he was in it even if I had a treat in my hand, so I can see that he's starting to trust me.

The odd development is that on Saturday morning when I was scratching him he gave a short growl and then went almost immediately into what sounded like attack mode, barking and growling, but rather than lunging at me he walked towards me with his head down, looking at the floor. I had no trouble getting out of the way, although in a limited space. Previous attacks were very fast, with his head up and grabbing immediately for whatever was closest (hands, legs, arms), comparatively this almost seemed like slow motion. When I sent him to his pillow he went immediately, then came over with tail wagging, seemingly calm (I didn't trust that, and ignored him for over an hour). He did the same sort of thing Saturday night, he nudged my boyfriend's hands, demanding attention, then growled and attacked, but as he growled my boyfriend stood up and turned his back (as we'd discussed and as has been successful before), and Petey bit at the heel of his shoe - again with his head down, and not as aggressively as before, no jumping up and trying to get anything in reach. I was telling Petey to sit to get him under control when the other dog, Spencer, shoved his nose in Petey's ear (not the brightest move) and Petey went for Spencer. Spencer ran into the kitchen unhurt, but yelping and whining, and then I was able to get Petey to sit. Petey then ran into his box, so I shut the door and dropped the towel over him for about 1/2 hour, then let him out (it was almost bedtime and I didn't want to put him into what seemed like an overnight timeout) and he was calm.

I think this change may be positive in that he's not attacking as all-out as before, but of course it's not as good as not attacking at all. My boyfriend made the observation that it seems like Petey has trouble disengaging - he wants attention, but then when he's had enough he attacks rather than just walking away or moving out of reach.

Any thoughts on what this means and how to teach him that we will listen when he tells us he's had enough? I try to keep scratches short so as not to get him to that point, and that my have been the problem on Saturday evening, but since he kept shoving his head under my boyfriend's hand, could we have missed a signal? Saturday morning he'd asked for several scratches within a few minutes, so perhaps the last one was too much? I think I need some more lessons in dog language...:rolleyes:

As always, thanks for your help and suggestions!

Cynthia

Hi Cynthia,

I feel your discouragement but I hope you don't take his backwards too seriously. We all know it will go back and forth, 3 steps forward 2 steps backward...

It is hard to read canine mind so I have no idea about his recent behaviors but there were some kinds of triggers that are not so obvious to us humans but meant something to Petey.

However, when you try to look at the whole picture, he is definitely improving so don't get discouraged. You did a good job removing yourself from the scene and ignoring hims for some time.

I am pleased to hear that putting the slip leash on him is going very well. Remember every little repetition helps him get used to that particular routine so keep up with the good job

Hi Cynthia,

I am so pleased to hear all the progress of Petey!
I love the picture! He is looking right into you eyes. This is what I wanted! This is a sign of him regaining trust on you and confidence in himself.

I am so glad that our suggestions worked well. I think he will keep improving as long as you are understanding, patient and consistant.

Do you still have problem putting on and taking off his leash? Has he associated the leash with going out to walk? If he enjoys walks, take some treats with you. As you walk him, call his name every now and then. When he turns around and look at you say "Yes!" or "Good boy" in a happy voice and give him a treat. By doing this he will pay more attention to you and it will establish bases for training, which you are planning to give him.

I thought about his aggression on getting leashed and I now think it all came from the stupid trainer who hooked him to the pitbull. I think that experience traumatized him. So, I really want him to get over the leashing issue. No hurry but it will nice to see him getting excited to get leashed (most dogs do).

Well, I will be looking forward to your next update Good job, Cynthia!

Hi MHN and Caroline:

More good news with Petey - he's now letting me reach for him, I don't have to wait until he comes over and sniffs at my hands before I can pet him.

Yes, MHN, he looks right at me a lot, and doesn't growl anymore when I look at him. He'll sit on his pillow, ears up, and watch me while I do things around the kitchen, and if I leave his sight he often gets up and follows me to see what I'm doing and get a scratch if my hand aren't full. He always gets up and comes over to the back door if I go into the garage (which I do quite often since that's where the trash is - if I keep it in the house Petey will go "dumpster diving", as my boyfriend calls it), as if he thinks I won't come back. He's going voluntarily into his crate at night, and I can open it in the morning with only a small part of the front covered at this point - I think within another week I'll be able to just walk up and open it.

MHN, on the leashing, he puts his head through the loop with no trouble to accept a treat, and is fine when I pull the end to bring it not-too-snugly around his neck. I still have to entice him to the front door with treats, but it's getting to be fewer, and occasionally he will just walk with me without them. He no longer freezes once I open the front door, but I still have to lure him over the threshold with a treat and a "come" command. Once I get him out the door he's fine, and is happy to go out for a walk. He gets treats at least twice, once when he eliminates, and I usually stop and have him sit at some point and give him his treat when he does. I'll start trying to get his attention while moving and giving him a treat for that too - sounds like a good way to start getting him to respond despite distractions.

Caroline, I'll certainly look into something other than puppy classes, especially since he's not good at dog parks (he'd rather sit with the people than play with the other dogs) and goes crazy when he sees another dog on a leash - barking and growling. I agree, I think puppies would be too much and he'd attack someone. I'm going to talk to the class leader about his fear aggression issues first, rather than just bringing him straight in, I don't want anyone, human or canine, getting hurt.

Thanks a million for all your good advice, encouragement and interest in Petey's rehabilitation. He's turning into a poster dog for what can be done with time, consistency, affection and this training system! Without both of you, he'd never have come so far as quickly as he has, and without your encouragement I might have given up after the attack where he got me on the hand, thigh and foot, it was that bad at the time. I think we all deserve a huge "well done"!! Of course, he's not 'done' yet...

I'll check back in next week - hopefully with more good news!

Cynthia

Hi Cynthia,

Good job! I am so proud of you and Petey!
A lot of people give up their dogs after messing them up but you tried so hard to fix Petey's problems and he is responding so well

It is so encouraging!! Looking forward to your next update

Hi Caroline and MHN:

Thanks for the good advice from you both about the impending move - Petey did not take the move a few years ago well when my boyfriend and I first moved in together, and I think from what you both have had to say I understand why now. I'll do my best to make this an easier transition for him, using your pointers - thank you both!

MHN, you're so great for fostering the various dogs, I can't even imagine doing all of this more than once! It sounds like you have your fearful dog coming along great if you can clip claws - I can't even begin to think about doing that with Petey. I've jokingly said in the past that patience is overrated, but we can't say that about working with these little guys, can we?

I took Petey to the vet today to have his nails clipped, and the receptionist told me that when she took him back to the grooming area the technicians were asking who he was, and couldn't believe it was Petey! He went back calmly on his leash and greeted everyone, although he growled and barked when the restrained him for the clipping, he didn't snap or lunge at anyone. Afterward, he came out calmly and when someone approached him too quickly and he growled, he sat immediately on command and quieted down. I was able to walk him around Petsmart without him misbehaving in any way, he mostly obeyed me on the first command during distractions - at this rate he will be ready for the socialization class when they start the next series

He also disengaged rather than attacking my boyfriend this weekend - Petey was sitting on the chair with him (by invitation), and nudged my boyfriend's hand for a scratch. When scratched he got uncomfortable quickly and began to growl, so my boyfriend stopped scratching and moved his hand away. This happened twice, then Petey hopped into his lap for just a moment, then jumped down off the chair. I think we're beginning to have a bit of a breakthrough there now too. Go Petey!!

I hope you both enjoyed your Thanksgiving (assuming both of you are in the US, perhaps not a good assumption), I certainly gave thanks for your assistance these past few months. Two paws up to you both from Petey!

Cynthia

Hi Cynthia,

So nice to hear all the good progresses on Petey. He now definitely trusts you and your trust on him has increased a lot compared to the few months ago.

I think "building trust" is the most important thing between dogs and humans. That's all I do with my foster dogs. I owe a lot to my own dogs, though. They trust me and foster dogs see that. Then, they think "OK. Those dogs let the person do anything to them. The person must be a safe person." etc. It is fascinating to see how dogs learn from other dogs. My foster dogs usually master "Sit" "Down" "Stay" "Wait" "Leave it" "Come" before they get adopted by living with my dogs and watching them

By the way, Petey did a great job by just disengaging with your boyfriend instead of attacking him when he became uncomfortable. This is a big step. Now he knows your boyfriend is not a threat so he doesn't need to attack him. Good job Petey

Looking forward to hear about your move.

p.s. Yes, we had a wonderful Thanksgiving

Hi Cynthia,

It's so nice to hear from you again, especially all the good news about Petey. He now sounds like a totally different dog! Do you remember the time you had problem opening his cage or putting his leash on when taking him out? Now he is whining for a walk Way to go, Petey!

As for your concerns, I would expect he might not get over his uneasiness with your boyfriend, or at least it will take a long time, because he did mess him up by following the wrong approaches by those trainers, although it wasn't his intention.

In case a newly adopted dog is wary to husband and becomes somewhat aggressive to him, for example, I would recommend the husband to take all the good parts, such as feeding the dog, walking or playing with the dog, in order to establish his position as the trustful leader. However, in your case, Petey has had bad experience when living with your boyfriend. That can be a trauma for Petey. Therefore, even after moving into his place, I would ask your boyfriend to be a low profile until Petey builds trust back gradually. Moving itself is a big change for him so changing his caretaker from you to your boyfriend at the same time doesn't sound good to me.

Besides, guys are not as patient as we women Petey has come this far since you have been so patient with him. I would not want him to go backwards. What you can do is to avoid Petey making any mistakes, that includes have your boyfriend play low key and wait until Petey gets ready for him

This is only my idea but you know Petey the best so you should be able to read his mind better than me I wish his continuous progress and a happy new year for all of you!

Hi Caroline and MHN:

I really appreciate your weighing in on the upcoming changes in Petey's life. I agree with you both, that working through stages with him (patiently - you're sooo right MHN that women are much more patient than men, usually) will be the key to helping him adjust without relapses. This past weekend I only allowed my boyfriend to give Petey treats in his "place" (large pillow) after walks and to stand next to me when I fed Petey, not try to feed Petey himself. It woked well, the only growling he got from Petey was when he opened the dishwasher and accidentally caught Petey under the door, of course that made Petey uncomfortable, so the growl was expected, but no attack happened - hooray!!

The WOW is that this last few days, Petey seems to have completely returned to the dog I used to know... wants up on my lap and when I allow it shoves his head into my chest, follows me around everywhere I allow him to, wants to "dance" (hops around with me and lightly grabs my hand in his mouth to play) in the kitchen, brings me rawhide chew bones and drops them at my feet, lets me scratch him while he has a chicken chew treat in his mouth (that one is a BIG deal). He even sat on command (well, a couple of commands) when he was acting up at the vet (barking at other dogs). He even met another dog about his size in the park and after two barks sniffed and then went into "play position" - Success!!!!

Speaking of the vet, that's my question. I had made an appointment for him to have his nails trimmed Saturday afternoon (he hates it, so the groomer won't do it because he gets too upset), but they brought him back out telling me that he was too volatile and he tried to bite the technician due to all the commotion, as there were many other dogs in the back part of the office. Well, duh, the vet's tech know Petey and how excitable and fear-aggressive he is. :rolleyes: They suggested that I give him a mild sedative when I bring him in to have his claws done, although they admitted that they can handle him when it's quiet (I usually bring him in first thing in the morning). I'm against sedation unless necessary, and I don't think sedating him every three weeks would be good for him. Your thoughts on this? I'd rather just try to muzzle him (since he lets me grab his snout, closing his mouth even when he's barking at another dog I think I can do it with some practice), not sedate him.

As always, I appreciate your advice, time and care for Petey and me!

Cynthia

Hi MHN and Caroline:

Thanks for your insights on sedation in dogs - you helped me look at the situation in a new light. I can now see that there may very well be a time and place when they're needed.

Perhaps I wasn't very clear, Petey had been to the same vet before to have his nails trimmed with little trouble - he doesn't like being wrapped up in the blanket when they hold him to trim his claws, so he squirms. The person who suggested sedation seemed to me to be coming at it from the perspective of "this would be easiest for them" not what seemed to me to be best for Petey - that's what bothered me. As it turned out, when I took him in I muzzled him this time (that was a whole new experience for me, but he'd been muzzled before - since I knew he wasn't fond of it, I got him used to it slowly by putting treats in it for him to take and getting him used to putting his nose all the way through to take a treat before I actually put it on him all the way - no trouble at all the day of the nail appointment). The technician who clipped his nails came out with him all smiles and told me "He's SO much better these days, and the muzzle really helped!" So apparently sedation is not needed in the morning when it's quiet.

Since he lets me handle his paws now, I talked to the vet tech about clipping Petey's claws myself, and she suggested that I start with just one claw and see how he does, then work up from there. I think I'll give that a try and perhaps that will be easiest of all for him. If it's a real problem, rather than lose his trust I'll just keep taking him to the vet.

And on the boyfriend front, this past weekend there was no growling, no attacking, and Petey even asked for scratches when my boyfriend and I were on the couch together, so I scratched him at the same time to make sure he knew his "safe" person was there - that worked out, we just kept the contact short as you both suggested a while ago, so he wanted more when we stopped. YAY Petey!!!

As always, thank you so much for your good advice!
Cynthia

Thanks, Caroline! I agree, the animal comes first, especially when it's a "convenience"for the human.

More good news, this was another weekend where there were no negative interactions between Petey and my boyfriend. In fact, there's a major positive breakthrough there - Petey took treats from my boyfriend's hand, then took his first few bites of dinner from his hand, and later took a pill coated in peanut butter from his fingers and continued to lick his fingers after the peanut butter was gone! Go Petey!!

Petey also rolled completely over to have me scratch his belly twice this weekend. I had to take him to the vet for another ear infection, so I muzzled him and was able to remove and replace the muzzle while at the vet's with no problem (gotta love those treats in the muzzle!). While he was on the exam table he even leaned on me and pushed his nose between my arm and side while we were waiting for the vet to come in, and was calm while the vet examined him. I've also been able to put drops in his ear, which I absolutely refused to try two months ago when he had his last ear infection.

I think I can safely say now that Petey has wholeheartedly given me his trust and is well on his way to getting back his trust for my boyfriend. He's been even BETTER than the dog I remember, since now he's more disciplined and calmer. I NEVER could have gotten him here without your and MHN's advice and support - thank you, thank you, THANK YOU both from both of us!!!!!!! I'm grateful to you both every time I look at Petey and think about what he was like when I brought him home to try to rehab him in August.

Cynthia

I have read your posts from the first one and am left wishing more people could show the love, devotion and concern for their dog(s). You are awesome and an inspiration. God bless. SCL

Hi Cynthia!

I was wondering how your move went so I am very pleased that Petey took it well and has been doing well with Spencer and your boyfriend

You guys proved that dogs can change with owners' patience and love! Dogs can be happier when clear and fair guidelines are implemented by confident owners

Please come and visit us again even if Petey has no more issues.

Congratulations

Hi Caroline and MHN:

I hope you're doing well and enjoying time with your furry families!

It's been a while, but time for an update... overall Petey has been doing great, except for the last few weeks. He suddenly started attacking my boyfriend again, and got worse and worse - to the point that when my boyfriend would put food down in the kitchen for Spencer, Petey would charge from his pillow across the living room into the kitchen to attack him! ARGH! Commanding him to sit and go to his place sometimes would get him to stop, but not consistently. Fortunately Petey would always go for my boyfriend's shoes, so very little damage, but a lot of commotion - not what you want first thing in the morning. Oddly enough, my boyfriend was still able to walk him and Petey was fine with him outside the house. Petey was fine with me inside and outside, except for twice a couple of weeks ago when he went after me when I was scratching him when he asked for attention just after eating. Obviously something triggered this whole situation (not sure what), but it seemed odd to me 3 months after moving - I would have expected this right after the move.

Anyway, I recalled your excellent advice, and started keeping a leash on him at all times in the house - fortunately he'd gotten over his fear of leashes, so although I was a little concerned to try it, it seemed the best way to control him and I had to do something. It only took a few more attempted attacks on my boyfriend where I grabbed the leash before he could get across the room and then took him into the bathroom for time-out until he began to recognize that it was inappropriate behavior. The last two mornings he's not even growled at my boyfriend or even seemed inclined to attack and he seems to be relearning that a growl will let us know that he's uncomfortable and we'll listen - who's training who here?

Anyway, in dealing with all this I was reminded just how grateful I am for all your support and advice - working through the prior issues with your help gave me the confidence and knowledge I needed to deal with the current situation, knowing that Petey will come through this, too. Again, thanks ever so much!!

Cynthia

Hi Cynthia!

Thank you so much for the update on Petey!
Sorry for the delay in responding to your post. I could not log in for a long time after this forum format got changed.

I hope he is no longer attacking your boyfriend. If he still does, look for a trigger. I think it is more like jealousy or resource guarding; Now that he is more comfortable with your boyfriend, he might claim him (or Spencer or the foods) as his resource.

It will be almost one whole year since you came to the forum with such desperate feeling. Just compare Petey at that time and now. Huge improvement! I am so pleased that our advice actually worked